Well, I’m not going to evaluate your opinions. But you just basically said that every GNU/Linux distro that doesn’t ship with Gnome/Kde is a bad OS. But I’d say quite the opposite, installing debian or arch or any other GNU/Linux (or perhaps BSD) distro with i3 or maybe without any gui at all doesn’t make it bad OS. And vice versa supporting high dpi doesn’t make Windows good OS it sucks the same way hi-dpi or not… Resolution should somehow match the screen size to make it usable with or without any DE. You might not have had to use magnifying glass with your tiny 4k device but that’s because your DE supported upscaling, not everyone is that lucky… Please just have some empathy.
I can agree with quad core, that’s for sure, even my Celeron N2940 has 4 cores so why my next laptop shouldn’t but it wouldn’t make me stop buying it, i5s and i7s are insanely powerful so I can barely imagine it - even with only two cores
Well I want the option anyway, for all the reasons I stated before. TBH I think any OS without DE should get with the times and it’s hard for me to be empathetic to it, but I’ll set that aside I guess. I don’t use stuff like Arch so I wouldn’t understand.
Yeah, the rest of what I said definitely applies. The cost is way too much for what you’re getting, which is essentially standard ThinkPad hardware. I want privacy and security as much as anyone, but it’s hard for me to defend it when I could get twice the performance for half the price.
I’m really torn on it because I really like Purism and what they do and I’d be more than happy to pay more and consider it a donation for the cause if I had the money - But the reality is that I just have a minimum-wage job and can’t afford it. $1500+ is A LOT of money for folks like me, takes a lot of time to build that kind of money up, so of course I’d naturally feel super apprehensive about blowing so much when I could’ve gotten several times better hardware if I would just set-aside my paranoia.
Hard to help you with that. You just want it or you don’t… Price is as expected, all the coreboot porting and intel blob removing and os developing stuff didn’t do itself. You have to see that too. Dell/Lenovo or whatever other brand will give you some generic, metal which doesn’t properly work with GNU/Linux even 2 years after release and put Windows on it. And guess what neither Dell nor Lenovo did develop Windows, maybe few drivers for touchpad to support their device or whatnot… They don’t do reverse engineering that’s why their products are so cheap - reverse engineering takes a lot of manhours. Someone just has to pay it and I’d gladly give Purism that sum (after I manage to make it :D)
I felt the need to come back and clarify that I’m hoping I’m not coming off as whiney/needy, nor trying to discourage Purism. I love what you guys are doing. It’s just… I’m trying to put in suggestions to make it as good as possible, and I just really saw a big issue in the “cost-to-performance” ratio in the product’s hardware specs.
I still love Purism and I’ll be getting a machine as soon as I can. It’s just an especially difficult pill to swallow when you’re an early 20-something and don’t have the cash to toss around regardless of how much you care about it.
I suppose it doesn’t really matter if the systems can go 4k or not btw. It’d be a nice-to-have, but who’s playing video games or watching 4k movies on their Librem anyway? I guess I just wanted it because for so much money I kinda expected it. But really, from a security / privacy perspective, it’s better for making your canvas fingerprint the most common possible anyway… though that’s a miniscule privacy difference.
Too many threads for Librem 15v4 wishes. Lets keep only one and get any response from Purism team: did you heard from them any plans, response on these?
Yeah I know, I made that one ages ago and I don’t know why people are still necroing it. The old ones can be locked now, they’re not as relevant anymore and I worded this one better with feedback from the older ones.
No Purism doesn’t respond to these really. I just like to discuss it and basically cross my fingers that they’re seeing / listening to it. I’m sure that in the end they’re just gonna do what they’re gonna do, though.
Just added “Qubes OS Pre-Installed” to the list, as I’d like to see that and I have friends that agree that they’d be more interested in pre-installed Qubes as well.
I’d like to see more laptops move away from 16:9 (16:10 looking at you mac) and go to the 3:2 aspect ratio. I much prefer the extra height. As far as I know only surface devices and google pixel chromebooks have it but having used a first gen chromebook pixel I find I much prefer that aspect ratio. I don’t have a need for 4K but something along the lines of the surface or pixel resolution would be great 2560x1700. I know this would require a complete chassis redesign but if we are being picking and wishing there is one my wishes.
Please invest more money into a better keyboard (the current one is omitting key presses sometimes if you don’t hit the key at center but on the edge - this makes it difficult to use for programmers
Please offer a docking station to improve mobility and desktop-alike working without plugging in and out many connections. Currently I am using an AUKEY 4-port USB 3.0 hub with HDMI output over USB 3.0 but this has limitations (like the maximum screen solution and refresh rate)
Ill chime in for the keyboard section. Having a modular keyboard on the laptop may be the solution. Instead of set into the case be a part that can be easily replaced and moddified. People seem to like to have just the right keyboard.
Also maybe we could use some Kailh's PG1350 switches.
If the new version has thunderbolt 3 capability implemented, there are a few docks available to where you can power the laptop, run multiple screens, and even run an external GPU from one plug. That would be the easiest way to solve that request.
As a potential buyer, 4K is an absolute must-have.
I love what Purism is doing, and want to move away from Apple, but I’ve been spoiled by the density of the rMBP.
It’s amazing for programming; I can fit so much code on the 15" screen that I have absolutely no need for external monitors. 1080p just won’t allow me to make the text small enough.
Just chiming in here with a prospective buyers opinion.
I have a 4K screen in a 15" style laptop. It is not worth it.
Maybe when I was 16 years old and my eyesight was perfect, I might have appreciated it when I leaned in.
However the reason I want to upgrade? I want a 4K monitor. 4K on a 15" screen makes no sense, 4K on a 30" screen is awesome. My current laptop can’t drive an external 4K screen at 60hz. For some reason it’s got HDMI 1.4 on it. It’s stupid.
@darko: You either have eyesight gifted from the gods, you are not working on a 15" screen, or you are constantly hunching in (which is not good for you).
And all this assumes that you are effectively rendering to 4K with your intel integrated graphics. Which means you’re not running gnome, that’s for sure. Openbox, lxde, and xfce for the most part, is OK at 4K with the integrated graphics. PureOS runs Gnome doesn’t it? That will be very bad at 4K in my experience.
On other subjects:
My big blocker is the lack of 32GB of ram to be honest. I run a bunch of virtual machines as part of my job prototyping subsystems for my company. I bump into my current 16GB of headroom every so often and it’s annoying.
I also would like an ethernet port but that’s a mild want.
I think the placement of the kill switches makes sense, having them somewhere you can see them is a good idea. Most manufacturers got rid of kill switches because users became confused as to why their wifi wasn’t working, because they forgot they had hit the switch. It’s a pain point. It needs to be addressed.
I’m running macOS on the macbook pro: It’s scaling to 1920x1200.
I did run awesomeWM on here for a while at native resolution - you’ve just got to bump the font size a little.
It’s perfectly usable for me because I run everything in the terminal or the browser.
15" 1920x1200 doesn’t allow you to scale to font sizes like this though:
View that on a 1920x1200 screen and I guarantee you won’t get clean letters.
I’m nearly 30 and I have no need to hunch in - I’m at a standing desk and there’s always ~40cm between me and the screen.
I know that there are certainly users who don’t want a HiDPI screen. I’m just saying that it is a must-have for me.
Ideally you would be able to pick from a 1920x1200 and 4K screen at purchase on the 15", giving both sets of users what they want.
As a current 15v3 owner, I would not want 4K and I suspect it would be logistically expensive to offer both 1080P and 4K variants. I don’t see a need for 4K on a 15" screen. As a compromise, how about WQHD (2560x1440)?
I’m probably one of very few people who still has a frequent need for Ethernet connectivity. Yet the lack of a built-in Ethernet port doesn’t bother me at all. Bandwidth bottleneck? USB 3.1 supports up to 10Gbps. Even with 10GE becoming more available, I’m not sure you would ever (within the reasonable lifespan of laptop) find a real-world use case for saturating that connection. It’s not like you have storage options that could keep up with that.
A higher memory ceiling would be nice, but multi-channel? Are you just asking for performance for the sake of performance or can you articulate a use case where this is an actual requirement?
There really aren’t any known solutions for this. Yes, there are some known mitigations, but they are expensive and don’t completely solve the problem. We’re probably going to have to just live with Row Hammer through the rest of this decade and most of the next one. Practice defense in depth and it won’t ruin your day. With techniques like ASLR the feasibility of Row Hammer is significantly diminished.
I do not want a Xenon chip in my laptop. I’m not gonna hold my breath for ECC. (Also, Row Hammer has been demonstrated on ECC memory.)
Well I already kind-of decided I don’t really care what they decide in terms of the resolution, which is why I more-or-less left the resolution discussion and let the community bicker about it without me from here on. Higher-resolution options would be nice, but if they don’t want to offer it then I drop it. Less work for the processor anyway.
I too am among people that need an ethernet port. It’s a must-have for people that manage their home network and piddle with their network firmware. Regardless of bottlenecking arguments, I think you can agree that just having a danged ethernet port would be preferred.
Asking for performance for the sake of performance, really. I guess I’m just a bit peeved at the price-to-performance which is what a lot of the post was about to begin with.
Security-wise I think the main thing is to wait for Ice Lake CPUs (Meltdown / Spectre fixed hardware-level).
Well I’m among people who would pay for the mitigations. If I’m already dropping $3K+ for a secure laptop, a few hundred more is peanuts at that point. If you’re gonna bother to do something, go all the way with it.
Well I’ve just seen other issues where ECC memory prevented certain issues that could be security risks, such as even just naturally occurring memory errors. Unfortunately I figure the Xenon issue is the problem.
Aside from cost, why wouldn’t you want a Xenon? My understanding is that they’re pretty much the i-series chips but designed to be more reliable for server use. Do you just mean cost-wise?
I’m not worried about cost. I think the price to value ratio is just fine. Maybe it’s because I’m a lot more critical of laptops than most, but aside from some minor fit and finish issues the Librem already has better design and equal performance to other laptops I would consider buying. Laptops which pack in a lot more performance for the price tend to be crap in other categories, like size, weight, cooling, keyboard feel/layout, or Linux-friendliness.
The Librem already makes all the right hardware choices I would make in terms of using quality components with good Linux drivers, and they go the extra mile by making sure everything is as open/secure as possible. The ongoing with they’re doing on coreboot/heads, the improvements to the drivers for the chips they ship, the neutralization of Intel ME, and more is worth a little price overhead to me.
Competing on spec sheets is a trap, and I wish more companies would recognize that like Purism has and compete on design instead. This is what Razer did with the Blade, and despite people crying about the price they have been selling well because many people like me care about more than just the specs.
Not wanting an Ethernet port is really down to not wanting to make the body any thicker to fit one, nor adding a flimsy pop up door. With USB3, you can connect a whole dock, including Ethernet port, with one plug. No more fiddling with a bunch of separate cables. Or you can keep a small dongle in your bag, or attached to and device you frequency need to plug into. The dongles themselves are cheap enough to have several strewn about your network.
I think we just have totally different approaches to computers and what we want out of them. I mean, I use a big-ass desktop-replacement laptop and am pretty happy with it. Stuff like Razer Blade and Macbooks I would scoff at. I’d be buying a desktop machine if Purism offered one.
I guess I branch-off from the norm when it comes to lots of things. Smartphones for example - keep getting bigger and bigger. I never wanted it to go beyond the size of the iPhone 5S or so, and now I make snide remarks about how big people’s phones are all the time because I find it crazy. I mean, when does a phone essentially become a tablet? Jesus F. Christ…
I want my computers big and high-performance, and my phones small and portable. I guess I’m one of the fringe.
As for Linux compatability, I made all my suggestions under the assumption they can maintain 100% Linux compatibility with them. If they couldn’t, that’d be a different matter. I don’t know what is or isn’t Linux-compatible.
Not wanting an Ethernet port is really down to not wanting to make the body any thicker to fit one
Well I want the body to be thicker, and have better fans, and I wanted the ethernet port because I don’t want to have to carry around a dock or usb hubs etc.
I like having high-powered fans, even in laptops. This laptop I’m using I’ve overclocked the CPU and GPU. But hey, that’s just me. I guess I should just get a desktop since that’s the vein I come from. Looks and portability aren’t even terribly important to me since I rarely work away from home anyway. In fact if I have one of these secure laptops, I’d refuse to ever expose it to any network other than my secured home network.
Libreboot is blobless but there’s issues and a lot of drama at Libreboot. I think Purism has decided to make their own version of a blobless Coreboot in lieu of all that.
But no, Coreboot does contain binary blobs, by what I understand.
