Bad blood in the forums

[dnesto]

I believe it is mostly common sense but goes like that:

• Constructive - focus on being specific, offer actionable suggestions, and keep the tone respectful and aimed at improvement.
• Toxic - avoid personal attacks, vague criticism, and overly harsh language that doesn’t help the other party understand how to improve.

Everyone has their moments. I got triggered by the text linked in the first post (“Worst laptop Ive ever had”) of this thread. However, delaying that initial reaction makes difference. Editing your own comment to make it constryuctive helps too.

The linked post in the first comment is toxic because -

• It uses harsh language an swear words - it communicates anger and animosity
• Lacks constructive criticism - it goes into generalisations, there are no actionable suggestions for improvement, it simply insults wihtout looking for solution. Clearly the message was there to hurt as a result of internal anger and frustrations.
• Personal attacks - the text attacks personally the team at the company. It wasn’t designed to give feedback but to degrade the organisation.
• No room for dialogue - there is no room for improvement or even dialogue suggested in the post

Overall, toxic degrades the motivation for cooperation and improvement between people in a group or community. Constructive however, enchances the cooperation and motivation.

[Sharon]

@irvinewade

but that isn’t the answer to toxicity

Everyone is still permitted to ride their own definition of “toxicity”.
There is no answer to what you, or others define what “toxicity” is here.

I have read the posts where people were ignored. I doubt you or @dnesto would sit back and be ignored for over 2 years. I’m not talking about MY two years BTW.

“refund” and “ghosted” is used together in *1,660 times posts here.

Naw. I’ve read too posts every where that people need to remain calm, do nothing, and wait - maybe they’ll get a answer - but I haven’t seen any positive responses to those poor victims.

The tools are here for anyone to report, or hide posts, and users.
If whomever doesn’t like people’s spelling, or negativity, ignore it, or block/mute them - move on. They’ll be wasting their time telling others how a post should be.

Anger and venting in a post isn’t something that just pops in to someone’s mind. Most complaints, Pollyanna-style or not, happen because someone has a problem with a Puri product. Negativity is something that simmers too long that turns into a full boil boil. Just as a post with praises for Puri are earned, so are any negativity earned. And I understand that the person is human, and earned the right to feel they have take to another level because they have followed the pollyanna approach many times on their issue to no avail. Should they just go away and forget it.

IMO, you both are suggesting that even though people are ghosted along with their money, they should wuss their complaint. Would anyone rather that they take their anger to your Office of the Attorney General and file a complaint there.

In the end, again, the mods may control content and interpret what is and isn’t “toxic” or too ‘negative’. And, we can all mute/block or simply move by at the first sign of anything one feels is out of their bounds.

[dnesto]

Everyone is free to define “toxicity” as they see fit, but at some point, we need a shared understanding of certain terms to have productive discussions. Otherwise, it becomes impossible to address concerns meaningfully.

To be clear, I am not employed by Purism, nor do I have any affiliation with them - I’m simply a customer who has had both good and not so good experiences with their products. My perspective is based on personal experience rather than any obligation to defend the company.

I fully acknowledge that some customers may have had frustrating experiences, including long periods of being ignored. I’ve seen the complaints, and I don’t dismiss them. However, the claim that “refund” and “ghosted” appear in 1,660 posts needs context. These could be replies within the same threads rather than unique complaints, making the number less indicative of widespread issues. To get a fair and balanced view, we should compare this figure to the total number of posts on the forum and the full user base to understand its proportion. Without that data, it’s easy to overestimate the scale of the problem based on the loudest voices.

Speaking from my own experience, I received a Librem 14 with two issues - random freezing and a non-functional keyboard backlight. I paid full price for the product, along with import taxes and shipping fees to Europe, so I completely understand the frustration when things don’t work as expected. The freezing issue was resolved by downgrading to PureBoot 29, and I was able to fix the backlight myself, thanks to the repairable design. I also own a Librem 5 and knew what I was getting into with it - I’m happy with the device. That’s my personal experience, and I’m sharing it not to dismiss others’ issues but to provide a more balanced perspective.

I don’t dispute that anger and venting stem from real problems. However, the way issues are presented matters. Expressing frustration is understandable, but if it crosses into hostility or toxicity, it hinders rather than helps. Constructive criticism, backed by facts and reasonable expectations, is far more effective than a constant cycle of negativity.

If someone has truly exhausted all options and feels they’ve been wronged, they absolutely have the right to escalate their complaint through formal channels like consumer protection agencies. But conflating every negative experience with outright deception or fraud does not lead to fair or balanced discussions.

Ultimately, moderation exists to ensure discussions remain productive rather than descending into hostility. Everyone has the choice to engage, ignore, or mute posts as they see fit. Respectful debate and criticism are valuable, but excessive negativity without constructive input benefits no one.

[Sharon]

@dnesto

conflating every negative experience with outright deception or fraud

I have a gut feeling that “deception” and “fraud” are personal opinions of what you didn’t like to read, but read you did anyway.

I feel that many people in forums anywhere feel as you do. But I must ask, why do you let what you don’t like feed your posts?

What is everyone could ban what they don’t like?

I don’t like some stuff I read, but I move on knowing that anything I might say may only exacerbate the temperature.

I think that by now we understand each other and share some of the points you make and any continuance would just repeat again.

Have a good one ‘dnesto’.
~f

[dnesto]

Sharon, relying on a gut feeling to assume my intent is a classic example of the mind-reading fallacy -assuming to know what someone thinks or why they say something without actual evidence. My argument isn’t based on personal dislike of certain words, it’s about the responsible use of strong claims like “fraud” and “deception,” which imply intentional wrongdoing. These accusations should be backed by facts, not assumptions.

Just because some see negativity as a justified reaction doesn’t mean everyone who challenges it is doing so out of personal discomfort. Scrutinising claims isn’t about shutting down criticism, it’s about making sure discussions remain fair and accurate.

Have a good one!

[Sharon]

@dnesto

we need a shared understanding of certain terms to have productive discussions

I believe those ‘terms’ are already there and just like humans, the terms are not perfect either.

@dnesto

I am not employed by Purism, nor do I have any affiliation with them - I’m simply a customer who has had both good and not so good experiences with their products.

Ditto.

@dnesto

claim that “refund” and “ghosted” appear in 1,660 posts needs context

“Context”? My curiosity had me re-testing, for ‘refund’ and ‘ghosted’ there are about “987 results” for forums purism +"L5" +"ghosted" +"refund" and “about 3,800 results” using "forums purism +"L5" +"thank you". Almost full, or almost empty?
Not scientific by any means - more like firing a blunderbuss But, IMO, a rough guesstimate should suffice.

@dnesto

Respectful debate and criticism are valuable, but excessive negativity without constructive input benefits no one.

I don’t know at what temperature of a post, or “excessive negativity” would have to be at where you might rate it as “Bad blood”.

@dnesto

Everyone has the choice to engage, ignore, or mute posts as they see fit.

Yup - have you used any of those options?

I blame some of the negativity on;
People looking for options excluding the duops, found the site, read the ads and bought one that is still years in the waiting for delivery. Refunds is another place to find what one might think is their level of bad blood.

So I am on the same track with you, can you reference any “Bad Blood” posts for me? PM/DM if you like. I’d understand why.
I could do the same, but anyone where I see a very offensive earns 2 strikes and they vaporize. 2 because the trigger post was strike 1. I don’t see their posts anymore. My issue with unpleasantness solved.

We’re all just human beings and that could be part of the problem but maybe that’s a good thing.
However, not being perfect and with the Internet’s unbridled help, we’re too in need of others to believe and adapt the same values as ourselves. We failed at adapting to the fad of recent years that went ‘Learn to be more tolerant of others.’

~s
Just opinions and having read this you agreed to allow me to access your digital devices.
Your privacy is important         3rd party partners for which I am not responsible for. If you have any            , or         please            your Administrator.

We mustn't take life too seriously.

~~~

@dnesto

Have a good one!

I repeat:

@Sharon

We mustn’t take life too seriously.

I don’t appreciate anyone taking my posts out context and using it against me.

Bye.
~s

[Xeda]

Thanks for all the answers and I am sorry for the late reply. I do not have a lot of free time lately.

The phrase in quotes, in my original post, is “how it sounds”, rather than a direct quote of something someone has said.

I think it would be nice to have an area for discussing our relationship with Purism and vent our frustrations out, and leave the technical discussions clean and direct to the point.

Thank you all.

[FranklyFlawless]

@Xeda

The phrase in quotes, in my original post, is “how it sounds”, rather than a direct quote of something someone has said.

@Xeda

Instead of “Folks, I am having an issue to charge my phone, here are the symptoms”, we often get “This is crap, Purism is crap, the product is a scam, you all go to hell, my phone does not charge”. Incredibly enough, the community still helps.

Quotation marks are typically used for direct quotes, not “how it sounds”.

@Xeda

I think it would be nice to have an area for discussing our relationship with Purism and vent our frustrations out, and leave the technical discussions clean and direct to the point.

There is a Purism subreddit if you want an actual echo chamber.

[OpojOJirYAlG]

@irvinewade

Who owns the problem?

Answer: We do. Not Purism.

It’s a community forum and most Purism staff either don’t visit the forum at all or visit it sparingly because it is often not helpful or constructive to do so. (So the venting becomes a vicious circle.)

Strongly disagree. Purism sets the tone. The tone they set by not being involved is that they don’t care.

For the community to respond to that lack of care with an adversarial bend is less than ideal and we can improve on that piece, but that doesn’t move the ownership away from Purism.

Also, if Purism does not want to manage their community image by engaging with the community, they are equally capable of removing the community forum. If a different community forum were to exist outside of Purism then I would agree that ownership would fall to that community.

[skyvine]

@OpojOJirYAlG

The tone they set by not being involved is that they don’t care.

This is complicated. It can be tricky to have staff members engage in a community forum in a way that is genuine and integrates well with the spirit of a community forum. The best forums I have been on have a small number of community managers to deal with problems like harassment but are otherwise very hands-off, while the general tone is set by enthusiastic community members who truly love the product.