System 76 is definitely priced better and better performing.
Are you saying thereâs nothing Purism can do to give you hope? Then, by definition, all that can be done has already been done 
I see you heightened your requirements since the last time when you asked for âassuranceâ. It seems like Purism definitely canât meet your requirements now.
Well done. But I could turn the ball around. If it is true that the quality control is applied correctly, the problems that we have already seen should not occur again, right?
Nothing is perfect in this world. As far as I know, the laptops team hates problems as much as you, if not more.
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I can totally understand and agree with that. So iâm just going to remind the problem I have and your team doesnât: the customs and the transport fees. I live in Canada. And the way you send your laptops = necessarily customs fees. I am a fan of what you do and I am willing to make some compromises. But to gamble the need to deal with the return of a defective laptop, no. Thatâs why Iâm asking for more transparency on what is being done to fix the problem. It would give me confidence and I would be much more likely to order.
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Maybe yes but in return you will receive a big logo system76 on front your computer and clevo unsecurity inside, not HKS, not free atheros, not bios-ec HKS, not a hackable m.2. more.
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Just to add to the experience and the discussion. I once bought a librem 13 v.4 When I received it, a key on the keyboard was defective. It would not press properly. Unless you press it at the right angle. This is a laptop that I paid over 3000$ Canadian. Did I return it, no, because I did not want to bother with the shipping cos and problem. But I was still quite disappointed. This kind of problem should have been obvious during the quality control and should not happen on a laptop of this price, and advertised as âpremiumâ. How many customers are in my situation, letâs see. But for me, it will take more than a promise of quality control to order again.
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Yes, we know that now. The ordinary consumer (who is not a hacker at heart) pays to support a bunch of hackers who develop computers that suit them. Maybe we should publicize their product like this in the futur?
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Wifi module and m.2 aside , how does Librem make 11th gen i7 safer than System 76 coreboot machines?
Itâs an honest question. I keep hearing backdoor arguments a lot and not sure how much weight does y hold for just people and how itâs been solved in the case in mentioned.
From what I know, system 76 is super invested in firmware level control and making Linux usersâ lives easier.
L14 it is 10th gen i7.
Purism own a security & privacy layout, System76 it using generic layout from Clevo, but System76 deserve credit for making a Libre Firmware for EC.
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Not really because a hacking computer make a security & privacy and Libre computer which is good for everyone.
So if peoples want a Generic Computer thatâs why Apples (apple computer) and Pears (windows computer) exist.
Yes.
Number if instances will go up as more items are sold, the more useful metric is percentage of instances.
Itâs a good thing you werenât asked then. This is an option, it is different than the ThinkPad with different choices made in its design and production. You either compare those differences and make an informed decision or you make an uninformed decision, either way you make rhe decision on what product to buy Purism doesnât force you to buy their product.
Purism does give hope that the Libre hardware business isnât completely hopeless. Just because they donât meet your specific hopes and desires doesnât mean that they arenât providing something for the money. Not everyone will value that Libre philosophy the same way, and again, they donât force anyone to buy their products.
Not necessarily, but also even if the problem doesnât occur again that doesnât mean the complaint wonât occur again. Also I know of no manufacturer that hasnât had similar problems recur⌠itâs not about whether or not problems happen but whether or not the frequency and ratio are acceptable. The way youâre speaking the only acceptable percentage of errors is 0, no manufacturer can meet that. Your expectations need reset to be more reasonable.
Customs fees are an issue with your government not Purism, not sure what this has to do with anything.
This shows a general lack of understanding of quality control systems and scale of manufacturing.
Should they thrown in a pack of stickers with your order? This âyouâre not doing enough so I wonât buy your product until you meet some undefined goalâ mentality is not constructive. If you can define and articulate a goal that has the potential for a conversation, but the current approach basically is saying youâll never be happy so thereâs no incentive to try to appease you.
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Yes, the Librem 14 (i7-10710, 6 cores, up to 4.7GHz, UHD Graphics) is $400 more than the base model System76 Galago Pro, but if you give it the i7-1165G7 (4 cores, up to 4.7GHz, Iris Xe Graphics), the price difference is $200. However, low-volume custom-designed hardware costs more and you get special features (WiFi/BT and webcam/microphone kill switches, EC flashing kill switch and support for Librem Key). Some people want the better graphics and better single-threaded performance of the 1165G7, but others would prefer the better multi-threaded performance of the 10710, so the performance advantage is debatable. For people running Qubes, they probably want the extra two cores, and to buy from a manufacturer that supports their distro.
If you check how much System76 charges for its Thelio desktop systems, it is also charging a hefty premium for custom-designed hardware, just like Purism does for the Librem 14. It would be hard for me to justify paying for Thelio, when I can build my own system with the same specs for half the price.
If we compare systems where both Purism and System76 are buying the base model from an OEM (which is the only fair way to do a comparison in my opinion), Purism is pretty competitive with System76âs prices.
The Purism Mini v2 with i7-10510U (4 Cores, up to 4.9GHz), 8GB RAM and 250GB SSD costs $799. The System76 Meerkat with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD costs:
- with a i3-10110U (2 cores, up 4.1 GHz): $598
- with a i5-10210U** (4 cores, up to 4.2 GHz): $787
- with a i7-10710U (6 cores, up to 4.7 GHz): $1047
If you need 2 cores or 6 cores, the Meerkat is probably better for you, but if you want 4 cores (which is probably the majority of buyers), the Purism Mini looks like a better deal to me, because it only costs $12 more for a substantially better processor.
For me, the big difference is the amount of software development each company does for the community. Purism contributes more code (~150 commits to Linux kernel, 522 commits to Coreboot) than System76 (13 commits to Linux kernel, 46 commits to Coreboot). System76 does quite a bit of GTK/GNOME development, but Purism employs a number of GTK/GNOME developers and developed 291k lines of code in new software projects for the Librem 5, including libhandy, libadwaita, calls and chats which are becoming part of GNOME. System76âs ec firmware (10.8k lines of code) is important, and Purism adapted it to reuse in the Librem 14âs embedded controller. Both companies are far better than every other Linux hardware seller in terms of their code contributions to the community, but Purism is doing a lot more and its dev work is truly vital for the future of mobile Linux in my opinion.
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Well, if we are talking cores and threads , you can have Ryzen 7 5700U with 8 cores and 16 threads w/ 15in screen for $200 less than Librem 14
Also, up until few months ago (b4 sold out) you could get a good workstations - Gazelle 15in w 11th Gen i7 11800 w 8 cores and Nvidia 3050 for 100 less than Librem 14 or opt for RTX 3060 for 100$ over.
And it seems like things work better out of box for the normies - software and hardware.
Everything else you said i agree with.
While this is unfortunate I should note that I had similar issue with a Macbook - not charging at all for about a week, then after discharging it would charge up. Just saying this happens with other laptops as well - and Apple firmware update may have fixed it⌠and some mistakenly say Appleâs is the best hardware 
I wonder if there is an external charger for Librem?
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In international conventions, even if one has signed a contract, companies are subject to the law, and it is possible to sue a company for unfair clauses inserted in their contracts.
Saying you signed is not enough. Whoever signed has purchased a product that must work.
Purism should be sued in a class action suit, it is very damaging to Purismâs reputation. How can you trust people who have such practices. They just abuse their customers.
Translated with deepl
This is basically the line of the discussion I had with support.
- The shipped an item with a known issue.
- The issue itself does not seem completely resolved. There are mixed reports of it being resolved while some users still seem to have the same issue, even recently.
- Damage is defined as ânot pristineâ. Even if they willingly admit any damage had nothing to do with the issue, they blame the customer.
- They are a small laptop company and with how many units they ship, probably not worth the time/effort for a class action law suit.
The result as I see it is Purism not lasting long in the longrun. Still no ETA on my RMA. In this case, literally no matter what Purism says, they are STILL in violation of the EU consumer protection regulations, in about 2-3 cases. Given the time frame, I could have opted for a refund completely without an RMA, because that is the local regulation. They even do not comply with that.
In short, Purism:
- Has no real respect for the regulations in the markets they operate.
- Are willing to knowingly ship faulty products and not honor legal regulations.
- Keep quiet about the issues at hand. In my case, someone said there was a firmware update. That is great, except, support never told me that. I think it is relevant to know in this case.
While I wish to support smaller businesses, there is not a chance in hell I would be supporting Purism. If I am ever asked about recommendations, I would say anything but Purism, including a big tech product. This is because above the purported features offered, with the other guys, you actually get a computer that ships without any issues and in case it does, the company actually honors the local regulations and does something to resolve the matter.
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This all reads like you put some scratches and dings on it mate. If you did then your chance of a refund plummets. Thatâs how it reads to me at least.
Yes any Power Delivery USB_C 60W charger compat to L14. DC charger it old technologies, however L14 has a very good DC Texas controller.