Can I ask for a refund?


I agree. And asking myself: Is this some kind of crime that Mr. Zlatan Todoric left Purism? Is this some kind of advantage that @jaylittle is gaining for himself by knowing that ex-CTO from Purism left this company or crowd funded project, for his individual or because of his family reasons that, for whatever reason, doesn’t need to be made public here or anywhere else? What I’ve learned from my mother when I was teenager is that I claimed that I never broke some of the very fine drinking glasses (like for wine). She replied: “You have right, but this is just because you’d newer washed one/any of those.” To make it short, I didn’t contribute to Purism projects at all as I cannot (I am or will be just another user). Therefore I like to say big thank you @zlatan-todoric for all of your build up contribution that still keeps Purism alive! Again, I see Zlatan (golden-boy when translated) as contributor, and just someone that left his Purism family because it was time to move on, for whatever reason and even if his own decision was at the time somehow without real ground to make such, here is nothing to be judged (if Purism self have nothing further to say/add).


Oh you should see the other things people who are dropping his name are saying. I’m personally glad he agreed to the interview because nobody needs that sort of association.

I’m not saying I can’t have empathy for the guy but… Westinghouse, Smythe, Bezos; Visionaries and revolutionaries have always prioritized getting on with doing what needs to be done over being popular. It should be expected that Weaver is going to do whatever he needs to do to make this happen…even if that means turning into Guy Smiley. He’s got my thanks :slight_smile:


Of course, electricity is not significant by any metric, it’s just something to be considered in the line of things - daily operations. It all adds up.
Again, they need a big cushion on top of the “actual costs” for manufacturing to sustain this super shaky endeavour.
Just today I saw super simple non tech piece manufacturing hiddden costs. 150k easy just for drawing contracts and licensing.
I just don’t see how at this volume and price point they can sustain any potential hit from returns and exchanges or a problem on assembly line.


Yea , ya know and that too would be mitigated by spreading your risk over a wider field of backers that may have been at a lower pricepoint as well .

See ? Cause now theyre losing 700 for every return as opposed to 350 . Smell me ? I mean it is just a wiser bet to create a more affordable product while maintaining a wider spread of potential risk in the form of returns .

Cause 700 would have ALSO probably been the driving factor that may have cause some of the refunds to happen in the first place.

I have no problem with putting out expendable capitol to not only receive a device but invest in the future of linux communication endeavors . But 700 is alot to your average wage slave . And when they are trying to balance risk reward potential , filthy frank staring at them through a 20mp selfie camera on a vastly superior build of a spy brick at the same price point might not be that much of a problem .

I initially didnt come here for a privacy oriented device . The initial shine that caught my eye was a linux phone that Ive been wanting in native form since as far back as I can remember.

I just see the privacy aspect as nothing but a plus and a win win .

Most serfs in 2019 dont care if theyre being monitored . They dont care if there phone is jumping to fake stingray cell towers …

So you have a small privacy niche community , a small niche linux community thats interested in this thing .

And at 700 you’re probably only going to have those 2 communities. Maybe a couple stragglers who got money to blow that just wanna check it out because theyre sick of saying something to a friend in real life and then the subject matter popping up on the browser page a half hour later when they open it .

But 350 ? Those stragglers would have been in FAR GREATER NUMBERS and made spec pill of the L5 alot easier to swallow.


I’m pretty certain it doesn’t work that way.
If it’s true that they have 50k pre-orders, that’s about 30 million dollars.
I doubt that the Librem 5 (currently) can be produced for less than $250.
Leaves 17 million for development, shipping, certifications etc…

I also doubt that a $350 pricetag would have doubled the pre-orders in a project that yet needs to prove its viability.
But if that were the case, we had then only 10 million for development etc.
It would have to be 200,000 preorders to actually have more wiggle-room, but that is still neglecting the fact that of 200,000 devices more will need a warranty replacement than of 50,000…

Hoping for four times as many orders would probably have been a bigger gamble. As Purism now knows the effect of $599, $649 and $699, I assume they have a pretty good understanding what a pricechange can do.
I’d hope they’ll experiment with a lower-cost v1 once the v2 becomes available.


To me it feels more like he’s trying to warn the public that purism’s mouth is writing checks it can’t cash, than shitting on the company


Its not just a guy is the ex CTO


It rather seems like the guy who has been a team lead and just realized he’s been a CTO. Cmon guys, the interview has certainly not to the CTO level - I’m good, they are bad, it’s not me, it’s them. Well, CTO has responsibilities, obligations, etc. He’s done good engineering work here but still, CTO is a bit more than interviewing people and cleaning up tech docs. Which is fine considering it’s probably his first CTO-like role, but you need to apply the context to see the right picture.


This is The Understatement of All Times™.


It’s so easy a caveman could do it.


as a general rule it’s better for the manufacturer to sell lower quantity at the highest price possible than higher quantity with lower price.

ideally quantity and price would have to be balanced somehow but it takes serious management skills to achieve that in a “start-up” …


Oh boy! Another one of these threads. Where’s my popcorn?


I think it’s time to create a single “Haters gonna hate” thread for L5 price and delivery schedule discussions and make sure that this stuff doesn’t get out of there…


If you like internet drama, go check out r/Purism. It is better than Jerry Springer.

I agree that a separate thread would be helpful. It would let us hash out the various points within a single thread, and keep threads (like this one) on their specific topics. I don’t think it needs to be used as a way to hide or push to the side news/information we may not like or agree with. Purism is full of big boys and girls who can take bad press. However, yes, new thread to keep everything on topic.

(Apologies if I misunderstood you. I take a hard line on free speech, and mean no disrespect or animosity)


I make 60 cents above minimum wage. I bought on the second day.


Small companies can have some issues to work for but to do an interview after you were never on a project and have been gone for a year only to slam a company as they are actually on the eve of releasing new product seems a bit unhealthy, especially in such a public space. I hope he realizes how small the industry is and that it’s probably not a good look to cast shade on your previous employers. Sometimes the best choice is to just move on in your life, sounds like he has some personal issues he can’t let go of.


In all fairness, his name was being dropped all over reddit. I understand why he did it because he was truly being used and his reputation abused.


Regarding the original post:
I don’t think the Librem One bundle is a big revenue maker. Purism is just trying to provide the security and make the transition easier for all smart phone users.

I originally ordered a version of the Librem One bundle but I quickly discovered PIA VPN and the email account are the only things I would ever use. I originally thought the texting program was encrypted SMS but it isn’t. I’m not into social media so the rest of the bundle was useless to me.

PIA VPN is cheaper on it’s own which I already had a prior account. You have to delete your account to stop billing with Librem One. I went back to sign up and read it more carefully and I was able to just get the Librem One email account on its own (no billing). I’m sure others have had this issue.


I have the bundle. I got encrypted messaging (Librem Chat) and mastodon (Librem Social) for free, but I upgraded to get Librem Tunnel (PIA), and Librem Mail.

The email comes with the paid account. If you have the email, but are not paying, something may have gotten messed up with your account (though in a good way for you).

Librem Chat is encrypted, but you have to explicitly turn it on for each chat. I use it all the time with my family. (Edit: On second reading, I see you mentioned “encrypted SMS”. And no, it is not SMS, so not a solution for that. It is Matrix chat)

I agree it may not be a big revenue stream for them. But it is very needed. I could have signed up for each service, outside of Purism, but I want to support the company with a monthly contribution :slight_smile:

I think having easy-to-use ethical services is nice. And it part of the puzzle for the Librem 5. It is good to have these ready when the L5 launches. These are the types of services people expect with smart phones.


I gave up on the tunnel on my current phone - LG Stylo+ w/Android. I’m going to give it a go again when I receive my Librem 5.