FCC Votes To Overturn Net Neutrality

/r/Announcements: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/7jsyqt/the_fccs_vote_was_predictably_frustrating_but/

/r/News: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/7jtexm/net_neutrality_overturned/

/r/Technology: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/7jtf4m/fcc_repeals_net_neutrality_rules/

/r/Futurology: https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/7jth3j/the_fcc_officially_votes_to_kill_net_neutrality/

/r/Politics: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7jtey9/the_fcc_has_reversed_a_2015_rule_that_could/

/r/IAmA: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/7jtes4/fcc_just_voted_to_kill_net_neutrality_now_we_will/

Pretty big (and bad) news.

Figured I’d make a discussion thread in case it’s on anyone’s mind.

I myself hope this’ll be stuck in courts for a while, and am hoping that people will vote blue in the Midterms next year.

I’m staying on a VPN at all times now more than ever, and am favoring VPNs that have technologies in place to obfuscate their traffic.


It’s sad and pathetic. I’m very disappointed but not surprised. I have no faith with Republicans or Democrats. We need Geeks in politics who UNDERSTAND reason, tech, science, etc,. I would really like to see fiber across the country OWNED BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE. Sure it would cost lots of money but instead of subsidizing AT&T and other telcos. We can use that money to fund the new dumb pipe. It’s an idea but I don’t like this current B.S. from Republicans and Democrats. I feel frustrated and my fellow Americans deserve better!

any Ausies here care to comment on NBN? I truly don’t feel that nationalizing the internet would be a good idea at all. what we do need is a lower barrier to entry in to markets for start up competition for internet service. lets look at it this way there are place in the US the 2 choices you have for internet are satellite or dial-up. And farmer Johnson that is 12 miles from the CO and there house is a mile off the closest maintained road will be no better off with a federally controlled internet service. might this stink? yes only time will tell what will happen. currently, if this Disney Fox thing is approved i am more concerd about seeing a marvel DC film in 3-5 years. just think you will soon be able to get a photo with Mickey Mouse, Iron Man, and Wolverine all at the same time. :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

A response to the FCC vote is organising itself… hopefully this is going be stuck in court for a while.

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And here is a decent article to forward to those who are not tech-minded… AKA the relatives and grannys and so on: a Yahoo article on what net neutrality means for the average person in layman’s terms.

With a whiff of hope.

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haha, love the image of Ajit (Pal) the grinch!

Heh. I come from the country where things used to be owned by the people for the people. It doesn’t work out in practice, to say the least

Corruption and greed eventually finds a way into any human societal system because in the end the root issue isn’t the chosen system but rather human nature.

That being said I don’t like to use the “Republicans and Democrats are the same!” argument because looking at the issues and how they actually vote it’s obvious that they’re not. This was a Republican push, Democrats were all against it. Same goes for the tax bill where they just wrote-in a bunch of junk last-minute.

As for Trump, I think he’s just determined to undo anything with Obama’s name on it, good or bad. He’s determined to completely undo Obama’s entire legacy. That’s all there is to it in his case. Part of me thinks that Trump’s entire presidency is just for revenge on Obama for some tweets and roast jokes he made.

And yeah, like I said, all we can hope for is this getting stuck in court and for Democrats to win in 2018 and 2020. Net Neutrality needs to be brought back AND protected far better than it was.

But I don’t wanna get too political here, that’s just a good way to start something that’ll end in the thread getting locked. Everything else aside, it just sucks and I hope it’s stuck in court until it can be restored.

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The Internet didn’t need “net neutrality” to begin nor for it to succeed. Purism’s entire business is based on removing government interference in our daily lives. The less government intervention, the better.

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Nice to hear it. More regulations are not the answer. Awareness will help us vote with our wallets, which is why I look forward to my puri.sm vote.

Net Neutrality isn’t some big regulation that makes the internet worse. It ensured that ISPs couldn’t do things like:

They lobbied so hard for it because they wanted to be able to do these things again. If they didn’t want to do them, why did they feel so strongly about it that they poured millions into lobbying for it?

Net Neutrality wasn’t giving the government power over the internet - Net Neutrality was taking tyrannical power away from cable companies to do whatever the hell they want with your traffic. Cable should be treated as a utility now, it’s insane that it’s not. It’s the information age, and control over our internet infrastructure without any oversight is ridiculous - the companies that control them are the mostly the same companies that control our cable news broadcasting, and with this kind of power, they can control the entire narrative both on cable news and on the internet.

Further, why did they create thousands of fake accounts on the FCCs website as well? Many accounts were made under dead people’s names even, and they’re not trying to block the investigation into the issue as well.

Lets not forget that they also made propaganda legal again now terribly long ago, though I’ll concede that’s not the Trump presidency that did that. Obama did his share too - I always was upset about the NDAA crap, which allows Americans to be detained indefinitely without trial, (just gotta call someone a terrorist and their constitutional rights go out the window).

Let me end this by saying that Ajit Pai had personal financial reasons to be against NN. He was bought and paid for and shamelessly screwed us all. He even just laughed and joked when Mignon Clyburn voiced the concerns of the people. He gave zero shits what the people thought. He and many politicians of his ilk just did what they were lobbied to do. Ajit himself comes from Verizon and will probably be rewarded with a cushy position at the company once he’s done leveling the FCC.

I’m keeping to my VPN statement. Keep yourselves safe. After all, even before NN was repealed, they already made it legal for ISPs to collect and sell our browsing history

I wouldn’t say the internet is “succeeding” as well as it should be anyway. The telecoms have just eaten half a trillion dollars at this point, instead of using it for upgrading our infrastructure as they were expected to. Our internet should be MUCH better than it is.

As for the laws itself, we can only hope that it gets stuck in courts and we have a blue midterm in 2018.

Lastly, I’d like to draw attention to the fact that “Koder” here apparently made an account JUST to write that comment for some reason, which seems damn fishy to me. I’m aware of bots and people that are paid just to go around the internet and create accounts on forums like these and make pro-cable-lobby comments.

I actually thought twice about pointing that out, not wanting to start any shit because like I said that’s how threads end-up locked for getting too heated - but I know potential astroturfing when I see it.

Be aware of what’s going on. It’s not all gonna happen overnight - it’ll happen in small increments.

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Hi Alex.

No need to run to the conspiracy of things about “Koder”. My name is Monte Hansen, I am a software architect who believes that awareness and free and critical thinking are better tools than endless laws that won’t be enforced, but instead used for further corruption (how’s that for a little conspiracy=). I’m kinda partial to focusing more on the development of systems that increase awareness (not “trends”), eliminate indoctrination, propaganda, and the 2 party system. We eliminate these, and we won’t have a NN problem. An effective way to fight something is to make it obsolete.

And I didn’t create this account just to chime in here, rather, I came here to vote with my dollars and give purism my money because they offer an alternative for those who care about privacy and data security. Cheers purism! And if my ISP does something I do not appreciate, I’ll drop them and find someone else too.

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Well written and thought out post.

The words ‘Net Neutrality’ are rarely as well explained or understood. Some people I know who pride themselves on being knowledgeable about all things don’t seem to get it. They speak of letting the free-market decide… But they can’t see that a market is not free when it is monopolies, cooperating oligopolies… led by CEOs and boards that have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders to maximize profit.

That creates a race to the bottom… A blind dash to see who can invent the best ways to milk us all for more cash flow… And no ideas are really off the table. A corporation doesn’t in all honesty have a conscience… Is more a matter of them having an image to maintain.

There is a lot of mis-undersanding around NN… And I applaud your decision to try to and make it understandable for people who, it seems, don’t grasp the nature and scope of the issue.

Some of us hold onto a utopian dream where the government doesn’t have anything to do with the web, and companies compete on a fair playing field… But it is an impossibility. ( VPN is available… But is yet another expense we can incur to attempt to maintain some privacy)

We must make the best of this world we exist in… And for me, that means supporting Net Neutrality.

I really cannot fathom how anyone can be against NN… Unless it is either a knee jerk reaction to all things painted as government interference, or is a someone with an agenda who stands to profit. Is a real head scratcher. :thinking:

@Koder Well you have to understand it’s rather strange when an account is newly with a single comment to it. But I digress because nothing can be proven and pursuing that further is just asking for a pissing match. As for the rest of it…

First of all, the two-party system is a symptom of the first-past-the-post voting system. I tend to get annoyed by people who feel superior to both sides by just denouncing them and choosing not to participate. We’ll have to change our entire voting system to fix this issue, but until then the two-party system will stand.

While I’d love to fix it, it’s just there right now, and I get a bit annoyed with people when they seem to feel superior for not voting for either of them. That’s part of the reason Trump won IMHO - I was a Bernie supporter all the way, but once he lost the Bernie people should’ve lined-up behind Hillary just to ensure Trump’s defeat at least, but many refused. I know that’s quite a controversial opinion, but I’d have preferred a Democratically-run government over this Republican-run bullcrap overall. Hilllary wasn’t my favorite, but I thought she was at least leagues better than Trump and I personally didn’t really give much of a crap about Benghazi and “BUT HER E-MAILS!”

Again, that last paragraph is probably my most controversial of opinions, but I stand by it. I didn’t like Hillary, but I knew that faced with Trump, it was no time for in-fighting. But it happened anyway.

I think what you’re saying is that technological advances are more important than political ones, but I dare to disagree with you there. While technological advancements are just as important, if we continue to lose battle after battle in the political playing field, that will eventually catch up to the technical advancements and could even lead to companies like Purism being infiltrated or even shut-down. Thus political victories are just as important as technological advancements.

I am concerned for the future of the country. “Voting with money” is a big problem more than a solution - corporations are not people and money shouldn’t be speech. If that’s the way the country works then the only opinions that matter anymore will be the opinions of the rich and large corporations. Because they have all the money, and having all the money means having all the speech in that case.

In a system like that, you end-up with a government that literally doesn’t give a crap what it’s people think.

Statistically proven that our government give a damn anymore. They just laugh at us as they lie to the population and then go do whatever they want - doublespeak left and right. Nobody knows what’s true anymore, everyone just points at each other screaming “FAKE NEWS”, so now people are just believing whatever they’re biased or inclined to believe in - basically, believing in whatever they want to believe, not what’s supported by evidence, because now evidence can be faked and nobody is an authority on anything anymore apparently.

But yeah, if money is speech then we’re screwed, because the top class of people can easily overcome the entire rest of the population of the country using what is just chump-change to them.

To be honest, this is my ultimate fear in regards to the internet-related stuff.

I get what you’re trying to say, and I agree - the two party system sucks as well as many of the things you listed there. It would be better to get rid of those things in one sweeping blow of course. But I feel that that is unrealistic. Yes in an ideal world Net Neutrality wouldn’t be needed, but it is not an ideal world. In an ideal world we wouldn’t need laws against theft and murder either… but such an ideal world will likely never exist. We need laws to protect the people and probably always will.

Ultimately, I just don’t see why you’d be applauding for the removal of a law that was doing good for us. All it did was regulate ISPs and ensure they couldn’t just do whatever they wanted without oversight. The better thing to do would’ve been to declare them a utility really, but only the most “extreme left” (extreme left for the US, maybe) people like Bernie would even talk about doing such a thing.

Without NN, ISPs are unregulated and without oversight. They’ll be doing whatever they want now. Selling your history, throttling your connections, blocking your access to websites - all of that is legal and there are no laws against it. They may even start blocking VPNs at some point. It’s a scary thought.

Of course “supporting ethical companies and boycotting unethical ones” is still something good to do and important, but that alone isn’t enough to stop what’s happening. Plus with how big some companies are getting, it’s becoming impossible to boycott some of them anymore without seriously putting yourself at major disadvantages. You need the government to break-up monopolies and the likes of course, for this very reason. I think companies in the US are realizing that they can do just about whatever they want to people and people will continue buying their crap anyway. So few people pay attention, so few people care. So few people in my age group even bother to vote and they’re part of the problem, it’s frustrating truly. Apathy will be the end of us, eventually it’ll reach critical mass and be too late to do anything to stop it anymore.

I agree with some points but disagree with others. I definitely don’t agree with getting rid of Net Neutrality, and the reasoning you proposed just feel like Libertarian talking points to me. While I agree with them to an extent, I don’t think they’re enough on their own.

Anyway, that’s about all I got to say. From here I just agree to disagree because while I do like some healthy debate, carrying on an argument beyond a certain point starts to get awkward and redundant and you just start to repeat yourselves at each other. All in all I share your opinions, but think that fighting politically is just as important as supporting ethical companies.

@MrFriday Generally agree with what you’ve said. When everything’s run by money, everyone becomes a number and all ethics go out the window. I certainly don’t believe in full-on socialism, but our healthcare system is disgusting and the stock market just corrupts companies and turns them from nice private corporations with standards and ethics into machines that puts money before everything. I feel like our problem is that we’re a money-worpshipping culture, in a way. When money comes before all else, you eventually end up in a dystopia run by oligarchs.

I think Net Neutrality could’ve had a better name, really. Think that alone made some people dislike it. It’s honestly pathetic how just a name can affect people’s perception of something - many Americans were asked if they supported “Obamacare” and were vehemently against it, and then the same people were asked if they support the “Affordable Care Act” and they were all for it then (if you don’t know, Obamacare is just a slang name for the ACA). Just goes to show that the majority of people have no idea what they’re talking about and are just picking sides. I think that in truth they’re just siding with whatever side their peers and family sides with, and pretending to be passionate and informed about politics when they’re truly not.

And yeah, lots of people basically just hate the government being involved in anything. Some people want there to be no EPA and reject that manmade climate-change exists even though. I’m pretty much convinced that despite the mountains of evidence that proves global warming, nothing will ever happen on a global scale to reverse it until it starts to affect people’s daily lives. I still hear people say stupid things like “OMG it’s so cold today, so much for global warming amirite??

There’s plenty of people who simply won’t believe anything until their biased media company of choice say so (this is true of both Conservatives and Liberals, but Fox News is certainly the first thing that comes to mind), and even then some of them would continue to reject it. And they’ll always just attack you ad-hominem too - such as how many times I’ve had to refute the “Well Al Gore uses loads of electricity for his fancy shmancy house!” argument, which is irrelevant but even if it was, it’s real fake news. (Yes his house uses more than the average American’s home, but so does pretty much anyone with a sizeable house and I don’t like the logical fallacy that anyone that cares about the environment has to “prove themselves by living like Tarzan or they’re hypocrites!”)

We live in a world where there’s still crazy people that downplay the Holocaust. I just can’t believe we’ve still made so little progress by 2017.

I don’t think the government should have it’s nose in everything, no. But I don’t think there’s really no good reason to think that NN is bad, or that laws prohibiting ISPs from collecting and selling your history are bad, or that laws that prevented dumping coal mining waste into rivers and streams was bad, or that laws that required airlines to disclose baggage fees were bad, or that laws prevented poisoning the ecosystem with lead were bad.

Yeah I just get tired of arguing at some point. Speaking of which, think I’ve typed-up enough, just had a burst of energy and figured I’d vent a little.


Good points everyone. In sum, the world is full of idiots!! Long live Purism and Liberty my friends.