Librem 5 concern


#21

For your use case, it might not be. I’m not sure that LineageOS will support it right away, but I’m sure someone will eventually port Lineage to it, so if you feel like waiting so you can use all the Android apps, then go for it. I’d just be happy to see another Librem 5 sold


#22

You will definitely get better performance if you buy a good quality Android phone, and then install LineageOS.

The difference is that there is no guarantee that LineageOS will keep getting updated for your phone and will support all the hardware, whereas it is virtually guaranteed that LineageOS will run well on the Librem 5, because everything is documented, there are no binary blobs, and Purism is committed to helping community ports.

However, if you decide to go that route, I recommend either buying a OnePlus or a Pixel if you can live without a MicroSD slot. There are a number of Sony and Xiaomi models with good LineageOS support, but check the model before buying. If you can wait longer, and don’t want the best specs, then you might consider the PinePhone.


#23

The phone won’t prevent you from using facebook or whatever you want, you could just log into the website. It’s linux, so the choice is yours. But it does seem counter productive to want a secure phone only to use a bunch of apps that don’t respect your privacy.


#24

So you found this project that don’t like and think is a waste of time and money and the first thing you thought to do was creat an account to tell people in the forums you think their project is dumb? It’s kind of the definition of trolling.

You assert that you want a secure phone to install a bunch of surveillance and tracking applications on and ask us why we wouldn’t want that? I just don’t get it.


#25

Why and how is Librem supposed to develope those apps? Apple and Google just develope the OS and other companies write the apps.
I’d put money on a majority of the people that are seriously interested in the Librem 5 could careless about Facebook, snap chat, etc. We want the phone to protect us from those exact companies (among others). The Librem, as far as I can tell, is being designed to do just that.


#26

I totally agree with you on that. The Richard Stallman way will get us nowhere. We have to be more flexible to slowly make technology more secure and open, instead of starting which extreme positions which will only turn people away. (For example, I got my family to switch from WhatsApp to Signal by refusing to use WhatsApp, this was only possible because I didn’t overwhelm them by also not using Google/Apple Calender, etc.) My premise is:

“Use FOSS wherever it is viable”

… which also means, if its not i’d rather use proprietary stuff than not taking part in modern life.
I’m not concerned about 5G (just a minor inconvenience, not something that stops you from accessing something) or small storage (easily worked around by expanding it), but compatibility to android apps should be a top priority for Purism. If the Librem 5 has the network effect working against it, it’s dead on arival.


#27

I disagree with you that it’s Purism’s job. They develope the phone an OS that’s compatible. The job of a runtime environment for Java based Android apps should fall on someone else, possibly the community?
I say this because you introduce large potential security risks unless the apps are properly sandboxed.


#28

there are already compatibility layers for running android apps within desktop linux. I see no reason why these couldn’t be tweaked for the librem 5 by the community if that is what we want. Not really purism’s problem. They are providing an open platform that we can make work the way we want. If it becomes an in demand feature it can be added to the main phone image later in updates.


#29

Baseband firmware is closed source (Qualcomm MSM chipset if I’m not wrong) but there is a hardware kill switch that if implemented properly should remove power to the modem.


#30

The phone is expected to have a working browser. You can still sell yourself to Facebook. :slight_smile:

I don’t think Facebook lets you be half pregnant though. Unless an app is open source you simply cannot control what is sent from your phone. With a closed source app all tracking is hidden. “Settings” mean nothing in a closed source environment.

I don’t speak for Purism but for me it is about creating an open source environment that is based on a different business model, not the business model of surveillance capitalism. The whole ecosystem needs to change (for those who care about this).


#31

A rather long post, so I would just like to pull the above one line out for the benefit of pureman48.

In my opinion 32 GB is “reasonable” without being capacious. However it all depends on your intended use. If you plan to download (permanently) full HD movies then 32 GB won’t go far! On the other hand, by comparison with any phone that I currently use or have ever previously used, I have never used even close to 32 GB. So 32 GB is probably enough for me well into the future.


#32

I’m curious to see how the OS will handle the sdcard. Will it act just like Linux sda0,sda1, etc? Or something more like how Android does splitting things between phone storage and expansion slot.


#33

I would expect by default it behaves about the same as the reader in the laptop.
Maybe in the first increment you’ll have to mount it manually. Important is that it works. Amazing is that it supports 2TB :sunglasses:


#34

I am curious to see if we will need to mount it from the command line or if it will automount. I really hope we don’t have to manually mount that.


#35

teenager or not if you speak and write english at a medium level and you know enough about how to register on a forum and use an email you have no excuse not to use the search function of the Purism forum. everything that was said here (by the way some community members here are awesome and very patient almost too patient) has been said in more detail everywhere else on the forum.

after searching the forums thoroughly if you noticed that we missed something then you could have started a new thread but lately the same “troll-like” posts seem to appear here almost like mushrooms because either you ARE a troll or just too lazy (my s3ns0r is tingly right now) :wink:


#36

Whilre reading reC above, I began to wonder where the search function was. As an old timer and it took me more than a minute to realize the circle on the upper right with the downward right pointing stick was the “search” function and a few more second to realize it was the icon of a magnifying glass. (I guess I’m used to have a text box visible next to it.)

One has to wonder at the ease that software has enabled people to subscribe to forums such as this. Because in my mind right now I’m reverse enginering what it would take to use a 300 baud modem with an acoustic coupler and a 7-bit teletype to log on and subscribe in text mode.


#37

Guys I am just putting in my constructive concerns. The more concerns I have the more I probably like the thing. Try not to get your panties in a wad. These are real concerns many normal people that go and buy a smartphone would have. It is important to take these things into consideration when designing a product.

In my experience with SD cards on linux and android it is anything but a smooth use case. Also I know 32GB is not enough for me. Even if you have a decent sized music collection this is not enough.

As for the baseband it seems like it kinda defeats the purpose for having a full open source OS if the critical hardware to make it work as its intended device (a smartphone) is closed source. This tells me Richard Stallman would probably not use this phone.

While the goal of purism might not be to make all these apps work if you want to get a large use share it is important that it is one of the goals. Throwing things like that out the window is exactly why desktop linux doesn’t take off. I think uname was right on this.


#38

Thanks for staying constructive! :+1:

On the storage: I never really had trouble with SD storage. And that is exactly where your music belongs. And then 32GB are plenty, even in 5 years from now, when you drop in a 2TB card to enhance the life of the phone.

On the modem:
Yes RMS might not use it, but he could remove it if he wanted to. And yet, he (or the FSF) might grant the device the respects-your-freedom certification. Purism actually had talks about that too make this possible.
Also, realize that there possibly will never be a free baseband. It has also to do with regulations, as it interacts with infrastructure. If at all possible, Purism would have to grow substantially before thinking about such an undertaking. The modules they source are already certified to comply with the rules of many countries and tested with these carriers.
On the supported bands: Purism can only offer what is available in that form factor. But you can swap in a 5G with more bands later.


#39

This phone is not released yet. So we can speculate or we can wait until the real thing is available to test. I have a number of spare µSD cards so I can test it for you when I get my phone even though I won’t myself be using an SD card on the phone in the foreseeable future.

Looking at Linux more generally, I have one Linux computer (not a phone) that is using an SD card on an ongoing basis and the SD card mounts correctly at startup and operates reliably and normally (if it didn’t then an application on the computer wouldn’t be working) - and of course all Raspberry Pi devices rely on the µSD card being recognised, being usable and being mounted !!

So “SD card and Linux” can’t be too difficult.

Depends what you mean by “decent”. Where applicable, it also depends on the bitrate.

(I convert all my CDs to 320 kbit/sec MP3 and for me that could exceed 32GB but I suspect that with the audio quality and power available on a phone it could be hard to justify that bitrate if outputting sound directly on the phone. The best option may be converting CDs using a lossless codec and then batch converting to additional copies at appropriate bitrates for the target devices. I’m using 320 kbit/sec MP3 as a compromise for a single format and bitrate that gives reasonable results on all my target devices.)

Bottom line though: 32GB is not enough for you. You should give that feedback to Purism.

It may help to mention what audio format and, where applicable, what bitrate - but I would just put the audio files on a µSD card if that were my use case.


#40

Along with what Caliga said; Purism intends to seperate the baseband from the CPU. I’m sure this phone will be tested for exploits. Future will tell.