Louiss Rossman on Purism

So let me get this straight, you think that Purism from the end of 2017 (end of official crowdfunding) to this days they should have kept the money to be sure they can refund everyone ? Using only the 2017 money to invest on hardware and software development, and hardware production ? Then only use the money coming from those who received the phone after delivering the 2017 crowdfunders (started shipping nov 2020) ?

I hope you understand how unreasonable insane it looks like :scream:
With your way of doing things they would not have made it to nov 2020 and the librem5 would not exist
I don’t think you understand how creating a new physical product as complex as the Librem5 works in the real world

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Perhaps Purism doesn’t, or they would’ve gotten more crowdfunding.

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The Librem5 in my hand shows me how wrong you are.

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The people who have no refunds, along with the retroactive refund policy change, beg to differ.

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Yes, and if that would be too much of an economic burden on the company they could counteract that by extending the crowdfunding period. That way it would be more clear to the customer that they are not entitled to a refund.

Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn’t. I think @cbl answered that question very well before.

In my opinion, I believe that Purism were the ones underestimating how complex it is to manufacture a device from scratch and took out the success too early by taking it out of crowdfunding before a significant amount of devices were even delivered.

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I took a look at the wayback machine and it seems Purism kept that crowdfunding page until november 2018
Then it was changed into a pre-order page until november 2020
Then it became an order page with a warning of months waiting list
Then the processor shortage happened

So I take back what I said, Purism didn’t make that “big PR mistake” I wrongly thought

I now think that customers who decided to give the money to be invested into the project, then ask for a refund don’t deserve to be prioritized over stable customers, and deserve to be kept on that long waiting list for their refund, just like those who are patiently waiting for the product to be produced and shipped.
No special treatment, even more so when you put the project at risk.

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This email is send to all Librem 5 backers

Purism wrote this on 2020-9-11. My order was Q3 2019. Both long time after the initial crowed funding. This is maybe also interesting. It looks like Purism handled pre-orders like bakers. The only difference was the much lower risk at that time, because the device was nearly finished.

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Pre-order is not the same thing as crowdfunding and according to most countries consumer laws it allows you to get a refund at any time if the customer changes his/her mind. With that in mind, all orders after november 2018 “should” be allowed a refund at any time.

The Librem 5 is an expensive phone for most people and if someone buys it in 2018 with the estimation that it will arrive by April 2019 and doesn’t get it by 2020 or even 2021 they might not have enough money to buy another new phone if they don’t get a refund. People don’t buy stuff with the intention of wanting a refund, no sane person enjoys renting out their money and contacting support.

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Everything is wrong. Since 2003 Google had a more then decade plus on developing Software, and toolkits to extract information and they understood that with the telemetry data, and with changed user behavior that this is more powerfull and mines indirect more money as selling software or information anyway.

The sad side is that programming needs to be payed so linux have some big companies now, try to introduce that shade software. So Gnome has already a default search engine in the desktop “search box” and try to teach kids to not have a tidy folder structure or a list with settings ordered by categories, to instead use a search box… to find some setting. And extract more Data, since the search use servers in default leaking behavior to third parties.

So sorry. Linux is only good, if you read and understand the source code and cut everything to a minimize lines of code you will use.

And the other three extract data, and train A.I. to generate a better prevision to you and your avatars… so sorry. I know you try to make a joke but the times are hard.

To which third party servers do you refer? There is none known to me.

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Bear in mind that after 71 posts in this topic, not a single post has been made by a Purism staff member. That means that every single post has been made by someone who doesn’t know. That includes the original video (which I didn’t waste any valuable bandwidth on). Yes, I understand that that is the internet to a tee.

Too much speculation. Not enough facts.

Of course it is Purism’s choice not to inject any facts and horror vacui.

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That’s funny that you say so, because the mail Louis reads out lout for half of the video is supposedly from a Purism employee.

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Supposedly.

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Yep, but since Purism isn’t transparent that’s the closest thing to proof we’ve got :person_shrugging: I would also love some official statements, but when the statements they make often miss critical information it’s just natural that people try to fill in the gaps.

To this day, a big reason why I did not ask for a refund and now have my phone is thanks to the thread on this forum where people wrote when they received their phone and when they ordered the phone.

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Investor. Not employee.

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I tried to avoid quoting this because it might be personally identifiable, but from this citation from 5:33 in the video it claims otherwise:

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Seems like you are right epinez! I read years before about a google cooperation by a search engine. This however is not the default if you use free software and i do not find something for purism right now. Will try to listen to the network and dns… but you are right.

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There has been, however, been some cooperation with Ubuntu and Amazon within the search… It was afaik cancelled.

i’m literally in the same situation as the person in louis’ video.

Purism IS a scam. Stop fucking buying their bullshit products.

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Now that’s from your chest, maybe, as a new visitor, could you give us somemore background? Or are you just here to rant :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
Meanwhile i’ll visit the Purism shop and buy me another great piece of equipment. :yum:

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