Phone in sub-zero temperatures

Hardware Librem 5
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Is this rain issue in any way related to this:

“Warning issued to iPhone and Android users over cold weather mistake”:

Experts are warning iPhone and Android mobile phone users that doing one simple thing can cause ‘permanent’ damage to their devices. You head out the door, iPhone in hand, blasting some music. It’s freezing, you think, but your phone battery is on a solid 87%. Minutes later, however, it’s down by 20%. Soon enough, you’re in the red. Then as you Google exactly how cold it is, your phone shuts off :

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/technology/warning-issued-to-iphone-and-android-users-over-cold-weather-mistake/ss-AA1x6oKn?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=cfb7f0e7ceed49908654061b200e1630&ei=14#image=1

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Same link stripped of URL tracking parameters:

No, because the Librem 5 does not use Android or iOS.

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In general, rain correlates with weather that is warmer than the weather implied by that story.

So I would say “no”.

I’m not convinced that that is a solid inference. The Librem 5 still uses a Lithium battery and the battery would still be affected by sub-zero temperatures in the same way. Yes, it is true that we don’t know whether the Librem 5 PD firmware might respond differently to a freezing or frozen battery.

Perhaps a better answer would be: No, because the Librem 5 uses more power, it warms the battery better than spyphones and hence is more likely to operate correctly when the ambient temperature drops below zero. :wink:

For the avoidance of doubt, all references to temperatures in my post and in the originally linked story are in Celsius, not Fahrenheit.

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That “news” is so fluffy, it’s gotta be in the cloud. Linking here from MSN is already a bit iffy but that site doesn’t even let me see that article from here - shows a localized frontpage instead. Longer version of the condensed MSN thing seems to be Apple warns users not to use phone in cold weather amid concerns it could cause 'permanent' damage - News - UNILAD, which is pretty superficial.

L5: tested in Lapland, Finland (among other places), in freezing temperatures. Proof:

2024-11-25-5311
2024-11-25-53113072×1728 447 KB

(Only -3C/27F if I remember right. L5 was working fine in the snowstorm. Actually, the temps were just about optimal, as can be seen - “pocketwarmer” :grin:)

Phones work fine in temperatures below water’s freezing point. Trust the millions that use them in the wintertime around the arctic circle and elsewhere. They do not immediately freeze. It takes time and things like body heat (keep you phone in a pocket that’s inside your jacket, for instance) and how warm the device is make a big difference. A few degrees isn’t a problem. Going -10C/14F, -20C/-4F, or even -30C/-22F starts to cool the device faster. In the winter, in the outback, you really don’t want your phone to die, as it’s your lifeline out there, so keeping it warm and minimizing energy use is good (and for that, the HW switches too, as cold makes screens less responsive to cold fingers).

That being said, a couple of points mentioned in the text are good: keep good charge, as the cold will eventually start to effect charge, and for the same reason, it’s not ideal to leave a phone anywhere cold for long, like in a car overnight. There may be minor effects to battery, but it seems to be in my experience that a few times of phone running out of power due to cold isn’t actually noticeable in the long run. Just don’t do it repeatedly and long periods of time. Phone will work, once you’ve let it slowly warm up again, before switching it on or charging - charging battery cold will have negative effects.

Something additional that was missing form the warnings is humidity. When something moves between cold and hot, you get humidity. And your warm jacket may retain moisture from your body heat/sweat, which can convert to droplets on the cool phone surfaces. Spyphones are are pretty well IP-rated nowadays. I’m not worried about little humidity with L5 as it has room inside to vent BUT: if there were enough moisture droplets that gathered inside (which is an extreme scenario), that may cause electrical issues, or those could freeze, if the phone is left to cold without letting it dry first in room temperature.

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To be fair, the article says

Studies have shown at -30ºC, damage to phone batteries and screens can be irreparable. Lower than -40ºC, and the phone is basically a brick forever.

So we are talking fairly brutal temperatures for irreparable damage and permanent destruction of the battery. At -3°C it’s just pleasant for the Librem 5 and battery, as you say.

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True. Purism should add a note to shop that the suggested operating temp is 0 to -5C :smiley:

That “-40 equals brick” is a bit much - the text gives a bit extreme impression. If you leave it to -40C for extended time, sure, the likelyhood is pretty good that it gets damaged. But if it’s for short periods of time (like, say, making a phone call or taking pictures etc.) it’s not likely to cause anything. And even if a device is cold, I’m not sure if the most damage is done when heating it too fast, and maybe handling it rough. And if it’s just the battery that dies, it’s not a brick.

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I think one would have to track down the referenced “studies” and see what the experimental conditions actually covered.

I think the good news is that because the Librem 5 does run a bit warm, people are more likely to take note of the temperature. By contrast, I have no idea even how to check the temperature on an iPhone.

On the Librem 5, you could set up a periodic task that checks the temperature and warns if it goes outside the set-points. (I already have a task that monitors the charge level and gives me an audio warning, so presumably it wouldn’t be too hard to add to that a check on the temperature.)

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If it gets cold, my plan is to calculate prime numbers while i use a ton of resources :rofl:

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That could easily be scriptable.

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It could even be useful. You could roll your SSH moduli every time the phone drops below the set-point.

I did that on receiving my phone initially (for security reasons, not because the phone was too cold) and it took 26 minutes in total - so that should warm things up. :hot_face:

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Lol, would be a good idea, I think I’ll mess with it.

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I think you could also check a script that’s actually named “pocketwarmer” :fire:

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