The problem if you do that, is that people who have an interest in the same software won’t work with you to improve it. Because they would have to give up their rights on their work to you, and basically working for you. They would have to trust that you’re eventually going to change the license. So instead, they will likely create their own version of the same software.
If your software is open source, you’re not the only one who can benefit from it, but you’re also not the only one who can contribute to it.
Have a look at the BSL (Business Source Licence) used by Cockroach DB and a few others. It seems to be basically what you’re after. A source available, usage restricted license that automatically reverts to a full open source license after 3 years.
I feel like this is the material point. To me this paints Pine64 in a VERY bad light. They really are just in it for the money. They don’t care about Linux on mobile truly working or helping to empower consumers. They just feel like they have a corner on profits because they’ve tapped a low cost manufacturer and can entice people with their low price goods. Those goods do nothing for the actual software that makes them capable of doing anything.
Why this isn’t better highlighted or have gotten more traction in this thread, I just don’t understand.
Pine64 is interested in selling cheap toys. They don’t want to change anything. They get to make money and appear to all of the naive suckers buying their products like they are some how benefiting GNU/Linux and the customer.
The truth as it stands now? Purism fails, and it wont matter how much cheaper the PPP is, there wont be any software there to make it useful. Belief that benevolent volunteer forces with the skill sets necessary to fix and make things work will just happen is not born out by history, and is the height of foolish thinking.
Megapixel (the best photocamera app we have on the L5) was developed on/for the PP. Did Pine64 did something for the gnu/linux on the phone movement? IMO yes, by creating more, affordable devices people can use and develop onto (and by shipping them fast). If it wasn’t for them, we’d have only ~500 devices running linux on a “modern” phone (and so, less developers).
In the end one’s forecast depends on whether you think that (in this particular case) the systematic development, maintainment, and caring for code (even for “unsexy” pieces of code) will be done by the open community of volunteers, or needs professional, organized and remunerated work. It follows that the second case needs a company standing behind it, but those (at least small, indipendent ones) operate in the market.
This is an utterly bizarre take from free software proponents. Arguing for more restrictive licenses or complaining that other people are using OSS code for their projects is completely insane to see on a forum dedicated to a product literally called Librem.
Purism could charge for binary images to install on phones like the PinePhone, while still making source available for people to compile on their own, the same way Red Hat does. That it hasn’t done that is either because Purism is incompetent or because it knows that the audience for Linux enthusiast phones are too cheap to ever pay for anything.
Look, whether Pine64 is funding software development or not, it is clear it is much more competent at hardware design (not sure to mention order fulfillment and logistics) than Purism has ever been. Purism would be much better off not bothering with its weird attempts at doing either piss-poor custom hardware designs (Librem 5) or buying Chinese ODM laptops/NUCs to try to put Coreboot on, and instead selling NUC/laptop/phone ready OS images/Pureboot bullshit to owners of existing hardware from better run companies like Pine64, System76 or Framework. If people are dumb enough to pay $1200 for a phone that can barely make phone calls/take photos, I think they’d be willing to pay $100 for an OS for their phone or laptop. Or maybe Pine64 would even pay a licensing fee just so it can ship something tested/supported on the device itself.
But Purism being a somewhat decent free software steward (though who knows how much they’ve actually spent on software development — keep in mind they pay contractors Eastern European rates to hack on stuff, which is like $1000USD a month) doesn’t mean that should somehow insulate them from being bad at hardware or logistics — nor does it make a company that can actually ship a product, like Pine64, a villain.
I’ve not said anything even remotely suggesting that.
You might have a point there.
While also a possible point, you still have to contrast that with a company not contributing to software directly. Why does no other successful Linux based company not want anything to do with mobile Linux?
Probably because of all of the previous failed attempts by other better-funded companies (Ubuntu Touch, Firefox OS, Maemo, Meego, Tizen, webOS, I could go on). That isn’t to say that no one should try, but I feel like the most likely avenue for success at this stage would be to have the hardware and software separate.
I firmly believe Purism could be much more successful and impactful as a software company than by trying to do hardware and software.
I’m sorry if you think stating that spending $1200 on a limited-use phone that won’t ship for at least a year is dumb is a flame. I’m not saying people that supported the initial idea of the Librem 5 were dumb (naive, perhaps), but yes, I do think anyone willingly buying the phone today vs something like the PinePhone Pro is either making poor decisions, or is so price-insensitive that they’d be better off just giving the money to Purism as an investment.
This is public knowledge based on statements from former employees/contractors, some of whom were laid off (some were rehired, others were not) when Purism ran out of funds before doing their last big campaign for convertible note investments.
I’m pretty sure pinephones aren’t (or at least weren’t, I know the one I bought a year ago wasn’t) sold for profit. That’ll like change in the future once the software develops, if it isn’t already the case.
Yes Pine64 they only cares about the money for them without caring for the user or damaging other companies like Purism.
Pine64 has created the Pinephone based on the L5 devkit or L5 Aspen.
Now Pine64 has gotten the PPP out so fast because it knows that what it did is useless with the PP, and with the PPP nothing guarantees that it will works well.
Pine64 never create electronic from scratch like
Pinephone --> Librem 5
PinebookPro --> Chromebook
Pinecil --> TS100
PP Keyboard --> Psion keyboard
all this copies plus low qualities material the resulted is a shipper costs for sales…
I would like that you defending/guard Purism like not ask me this, but then other user asking your questions. I only revalue what other users think of Pine64 to Purism if you see i responded to “2disbetter”. I am not motivated to answer you because the answers enter the same comments as I did.
I live in Eastern Europe and I’m contracted by Purism. I’m sure not paid American rates, that’s true, but $1000 USD a month gross is not that much above the minimal wage allowed by law in the country I live in and significantly below the average wage across the whole country. I can assure you that’s not even close to the wage I (or pretty much any other somewhat experienced software developer in my country) am paid
It doesn’t matter who you’re replying to. When taking part in discussions, please try to say only things you know are true. If you want to say what others think, say “this is what X thinks”. Otherwise it’s misleading.
