Actually, I had encountered W11 briefly once before, when I picked up a Surface Go 2 on sale. That ordeal was worse due to the fact that it was MS hardware with an irritating MS boot menu. But I decontaminated by installing Mint.
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How did you do this? I never saw an option like that during setup, unlike all of the other previous versions of Windows.
Maybe it’s only present in W11 Pro, or only shows up if you don’t connect by ethernet from the start, but at the “Let’s connect you to a network” prompt, there’s an “I don’t have internet” option (in small print) that you can click to proceed to local setup.
I’ve seen some other methods discussed on several sites. For example: How to Install Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account | Tom's Hardware and How to bypass the Microsoft Account requirement during Windows setup - gHacks Tech News
Once you’re up and running, you can then connect and download updates as normal; the license will be activated. I don’t know if you can can get a copy of the full license number, though; it’s obscured in the System information in Settings.
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I have a Windows10 Pro machine. It’s a Lenovo 450 (Intel Gen 5) laptop that I picked up off of ebay 3 years ago for $250. I got it mainly to run TurboTax locally.
- The installation of Windows 10 Pro did take quite a bit longer than a typical Linux install (e.g. Ubuntu). IIRC, it required a Microsoft Account if you wanted to use Full Disk Encryption. The point, I believe, isn’t “spying” … it’s because Windows users can’t be trusted to have a backup of their disk encryption key if, for some reason, their TPM dies (e.g. motherboard).
- You commented on “speed”. Outside of the install, I haven’t found any real difference in the speed between Linux and Windows. It has actually been nicer than I remember Windows being (my last Windows install was Windows XP).
- You commented that Windows was “annoying as hell.” Other than the “forced updates”, I haven’t found it to be annoying at all. It has actually been pretty intuitive. [I guess I don’t really understand some of the filesystem permissions, but that’s probably just that it’s “different and I don’t know enough”.]
- It was very easy to install WSL2. WSL2 works amazingly well. I only intended to use it for TurboTax, but it actually fits well into my normal workflow.
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For example, it took me a while before I realized I needed to click on text in the settings in order to go back a level. I guess I’m used to icons and buttons. Also, I never did figure out where the shutdown button was.
I did notice that the drive directory looks very much like Nemo, which is intuitive for me.
A few times the browser launched when I didn’t expect it, because I clicked on some button I was investigating. (Not the Edge button, and not anything like “Learn more,” etc. I don’t remember what it was, exactly. I was just annoyed at having launched a chromium-based browser.)
There was a very noticeable delay when launching applications sometimes. In fact, I was unsure several times whether anything was happening. Could just be this particular machine, though. Linux Mint is very fast on this drive.
And then there’s the “upsell” factor with W11.
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Is it so? And why there are endless amounts of videos like this to debloat win11 on a fresh install? Doesn’t look even close to be intuitive.
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It sounds funny saying it, but the “shutdown button” is the left menu you get by pushing the bottom left “Start” button.
Strange. I haven’t had that happen.
I haven’t noticed any real difference. If anything, Firefox starts up faster on Windows.
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I don’t think I saw a Start button on the bottom left; only a weather button.
Edit: Ah, do you mean the Windows logo button in the center?
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I don’t know why — maybe they are just trying to get clicks. I didn’t do any of that … except doing a fresh install and installing all the Windows updates —> which is what you do under Linux anyway, right? Otherwise those steps seemed inane to me. There are similar videos on Linux: 12 Killer Tips To Speed Up Ubuntu Linux . Don’t those suggestions seem silly too??? Also, there are tons of videos for Linux on ramdisks, host blacklists (GitHub - Ultimate-Hosts-Blacklist/Ultimate.Hosts.Blacklist: The Ultimate Unified Hosts file for protecting your network, computer, smartphones and Wi-Fi devices against millions of bad web sites. Protect your children and family from gaining access to bad web sites and protect your devices and pc from being infected with Malware or Ransomware.), using swap files instead of swap partitions … unless you want to hibernate, …
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I think that’s a difference between Windows 11 and Windows 10. I’m using Windows 10 Pro. I think on Windows 11 they changed the bottom button bar to be centered by default instead of on the left (that can be easily changed) and the Windows Logo on the left of that bar is the “start” button. Of course I think “ctrl-alt-del” brings up a menu you can use to shut down the machine.
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The point is, that you have a lot of bloatware installed like on laptop seller who install a lot of software by default that you may never want to use and don’t allow to uninstall. Windows 11 is the first Windows that behaves similar. That is not even close to “speed up Ubuntu” videos.
Also Microsoft makes more and more decisions against the users. I’m actually use Win10 and things on Win11 are the totally red flag to me. On next PC upgrade I will change completely to Linux.
I don’t care about such “speed ups” since my PC is strong enough that I don’t feel a difference. But I care about all the other things that are getting worse - privacy wise and user experience wise.
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I didn’t have any bloatware on mine. I bought it used off of ebay and they set it up with a fresh windows install. Of course I didn’t trust that and did a fresh install anyway. No bloat. I would think that anyone getting any computer should do a fresh install of whatever OS they wanted.
LOL. Like I said, I didn’t have anything like that, did I?
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As far as I know it’s not for business version, but for the others (including professional). When did you get hands on those installers? You may have a previous version or a 3rd party installer that uses a bug to remove bloatware from installer.
Was speaking about those laptops. I don’t know how much work it is to remove bloatware without tools (if an easy uninstall is enough or more steps are needed).
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These days, anybody who has a Windows machine (OEM license or separately purchased) can do a clean no-vendor-bloatware install of Windows on their machine for no money. The install/installer is straight from Microsoft rather than the laptop vendor.
Most people don’t do this — either they don’t know how or they don’t care. The extra programs vs. a fresh/clean install mostly go unused and basically clutter the desktop.
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I don’t speak about OEM or anything related to a vendor and just speak about a clean install. Why there are so many articles about bloated fresh installs and “modified installer uses a bug to remove bloatware from installer that is no feature wanted by Microsoft” if you’re right? Microsoft is getting money by providing TikTok-app or Disney+ or Netflix apps for installers of home and professional. Microsoft is getting it, not HP, Dell or any other vendor.
Here a link with such software that get installed by default: https://www.digitalcitizen.life/windows-10-bloatware/
This year, while clean installing either Windows 10 or Windows 11 on our test computers, we’ve also encountered the following bloatware apps: […]
I read a lot of such stuff these days and never read such things before. Previous I spoke about vendors to show what kind of bloatware Microsoft is build in right now by default what they never did before (at least not 3rd party stuff).
PS:
I just did not know that it also happens already with Win10.
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That list is somewhat shocking.
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Why are there the same articles on Linux? My guess at an answer is that it’s because people are
generally uninformed and media wants to sell FUD.
All I know is that 3 years ago I bought a used laptop on ebay for $250. It had a OEM (reseller) license for Windows 10 Pro. I was able to completely wipe and install a clean copy of Windows 10 Pro directly from Microsoft and it came with 0 bloatware.
Here a link with such software that get installed by default: https://www.digitalcitizen.life/windows-10-bloatware/
There were is a solitaire game installed in my “clean copy”. That said, there were links (not installed programs) to where one can install other programs (Mostly MS-owned stuff: Microsoft 365, Skype, … but also Spotify). I do want to point out that they are not actually installed and are easily delete-able.
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So
- I speak about Win 11 and you say “no”, because you had experience with Win 10.
- You did it 3 years ago while those articles speak about the last 2 years.
I only speak about 3rd Party stuff, nothing from Windows (even if Skype could be called bloatware, I don’t even count this here).
And by the way, I never read such articles before (and also not for Linux). I know there are articles for OEM from 10 years ago etc, but I count it as something different since resellers were doing it and now it’s Microsoft itself. The time runs further, 3 years old experience mean nothing these days.
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I made an unpleasant discovery about this machine: Dell had installed Absolute (aka Computrace) theft-recovery software (sometimes known as “LoJack for laptops”).
I only noticed an enable/disable setting for it in the Dell boot menu after I had already wiped Windows, and it’s now grayed out, and set to “enabled.” (Can’t change it.)
I did some research, and read that it apparently can’t run in Linux systems, because it relies on certain Windows .exe files. I contacted Absolute, and they confirmed that. They also checked my product Service Tag number and verified that the subscription for that machine is disabled in their system, which would indicate that the previous owner, or perhaps the vendor, had discontinued it, if it was ever enabled.
The tech rep said that the only way to remove the software, assuming it’s not under subscription by a previous owner, is within Windows. (I didn’t make a copy of the Windows installation, so I no longer have the option of removing it… although installing Linux Mint allegedly will have erased any files it relies on.) The rep also said that the software can not make any connections from the firmware/BIOS/etc.
I’ve checked all the outgoing connections from the device that have been logged in Pi-hole, and haven’t seen any of the ones listed in the linked Absolute document above. They may have happened when I first powered up with Windows, but that was behind a VPN, so I wouldn’t see them in Pi-hole.
So I guess I’m stuck with that annoying setting panel in the boot menu, even if there’s allegedly no chance the software could do anything without Windows.
Rookie mistake… Should have paid closer attention.
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Well I could suggest a solution, but all I can really think about is that this is not worth the trouble. Hopefully you can enjoy your refurbished machine regardless.
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