I wouldn’t apply this logic to every company – only to a company which already showed significant progress and advanced the field.
If I trust this craftsman that they do their best and struggle to meet the ends, and if I want to support them doing the good thing, I will wait longer for my goods/services. Also, I should have some hope that they will get out of the debt at some point.
I find it strange that people miss the point of developing the Librem 5. They just think it’s like any other product and not the point of the spear trying to free you from the digital technocracy. That being said why wouldn’t you give them every opportunity to succeed even if it meant great inconvenience to you? I’ve waited almost 4 years for my phone and I’m hopefully about to get it. Is that tremendously disappointing? Yes, but I can also see the big picture here. I invested in this project knowing full well that I may not even receive a product, but I supported the idea even if they failed, they will have in the very least moved the cause along. Don’t you guys get it?
I think the main problem is in the expectations management.
Maybe one could have gathered the money from donations in order to avoid this situation.
Or one could have cooled down expectations like PinePhone. They make it very clear that their phone is not for everyone.
Not everyone bought a Librem 5. There are also reports of people who are waiting for refunds for other products of them, products which all supposedly can be shipped within a few days.
That being said why wouldn’t you give them every opportunity to succeed even if it meant great inconvenience to you?
You really can’t imagine scenarios where people, especially in these days, would want to cancel an order for an expensive device? Also, they don’t need a reason. There’s a law and above that Purism even has their own policies, which they themselves put up and chose to violate.
I invested in this project knowing full well that I may not even receive a product
Like I said, not everyone gambled on the Librem 5 phone, there are also people waiting for refunds on the supposedly ready Librem 5 USA, Librem 14, …
If I trust this craftsman that they do their best and struggle to meet the ends, and if I want to support them doing the good thing, I will wait longer for my goods/services. Also, I should have some hope that they will get out of the debt at some point.
Would you also support this craftsman if they accepted multiple new contracts and money from other clients, which they explicitly know they can’t fulfill at the moment? Would you also support this craftsman, if they didn’t provide any financial reports, which they are required to by law?
They provided estimations for the delivery time, according to their best knowledge at the time. First couple of delay were purely their fault (but one can never know how hard it is until you actually try). Later, Covid made it impossible to make reliable estimates. I do not see any sign of intentional evil here, do you?
Did you read this topic before commenting? The lack of reports only removes some protections for Purism. It is not necessary for the main goal. (But I hope they do it at some point.)
They provided estimations for the delivery time, according to their best knowledge at the time. First couple of delay were purely their fault (but one can never know how hard it is until you actually try). Later, Covid made it impossible to make reliable estimates. I do not see any sign of intentional evil here, do you?
You’re ignoring the cases where customers ordered devices like the Librem 5 USA or Librem 14, which have been listed as “In stock” with “10 days shipping time” for months now, and are still waiting for refunds. To this day Purism is selling those devices with the following policy:
If, for any reason, you want to cancel your order before it was shipped, we will issue a full refund.
Which according to the FTC must be provided within seven working days.
The fact that they know that can’t or won’t comply with that policy, but still sell devices under that policy, is in my book a clear sign of intentional evil.
Did you read this topic before commenting? The lack of reports only removes some protections for Purism. It is not necessary for the main goal. (But I hope they do it at some point.)
It’s one of the requirements of a social purpose company. To this day Purism is advertising itself as a social purpose company, so obviously they’re obligated to provide those annual reports.
I do not know how widespread it is, but it looks like a more rare case. Of course I do not think that it’s fine. But my above argument still applies, since it’s the same company.
I agree that it looks quite bad. However, since I think that such cases are rare (do you have any evidence otherwise?), they could results from the unintentional management mistakes. I hope it gets solved ASAP.
They are probably allowed to advertise themselves as SPC, although they may not have the actual protection. Yes, I find it sad, too. Do you suggest that I choose a ThinkPad or MacBook? Purism never had any security or privacy incidents.
To everyone I ordered the USA version and the website clearly stated they were in stock and I would receive it in 10 Days Did not happen so I cancelled my order Now they refuse to refund my money
I fully support a lawsuit
I ordered the USA version and when I ordered it clearly stated and stated as of Sept 8th “Place your order now, get in approximately 10 days!”
I kept getting the run around and on Sept 24th cancelled my order
To date they are still giving me the run around
I fully support legal action against this company
Was your order placed recent enough to simply dispute the charge on your credit card?
Even if it is, that’s not something ANY customer should have to do if the events are true as presented.
100 percent agree. Unfortunately Purism’s refund process is abysmal.
Do a credit card chargeback. If you paid in some way other than with a credit card, then you’ve learned an expensive lesson, unfortunately.