Silense in the Librem 11 category


I came back this Friday from Havanna, Cuba, from a Filmfest there…

I find this category of the forum with very little posts… Why is this?
Personally I cant do anything with my L11 anymore. I damaged the display and dont know if there is any chance to get this repaired. I plan to buy a 2nd one after the end of this year and when all returned to business.


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Holiday season.

I didn’t buy Librem 11 even though I like my other Purism products, because hardware switches and removable batteries are some of the parts that make my Purism devices feel special.

So I personally was ignoring the L11 topic because of this. Are others in a similar situation?

Edit: If we wanted to change how I feel on the matter, one idea would be to publish software on Librem 5 that can record audio even when the hardware mic switch is off. A big YouTuber said that everyone who likes security must buy Google Pixel instead of Librem 5, and one of the reasons he cited is the ability to record audio anyway even when the mic switch is off, which he said is proof that Librem 5 and Purism hardware switches do not actually function in any meaningful way.

He has million(s) of viewers and many people were swayed by his claims, supposedly. If we could develop proof of concept software for recording audio while the mic switch is off, and folks like me who enjoy their hardware switches could run and see that software in action, maybe then we would know these features are a hoax and become more liberal about buying Librem 11.

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I strongly don’t want to know who it is.

I will never use it a Google Phone nor Google OSes or Degoogled Whatever OSes.

L11 is a Big Shame for Purism.


Wait, what? Ohhhh … I remember now. Louis was making the point that the hardware switch DOESN’T TURN OFF THE SPEAKER PHONE which means with an updated driver you could probably use the speaker to actually record sound. In which case, his reasoning is that since you cannot turn off the F’N speakers in the unit you might as well not live with the downsides of the free software stack and go and use the pseudo-android bullshit.

He is technically correct, this can be done, but holy crap does Louis Rossman talk out of his arse most of the time.

Here is all you need to know about Louis: No matter how much shit he talks, he will eventually be here on a Librem 5 v.1.0 or v.2.0 when it comes out. One way or the other, he will be forced here just like all of us were, he is just behind the freedom curve, but catching up quickly.

Let me give you an example of the kind of bullshit that douche talks: Go back just a couple of years and he has a video about how he used Linux since the 00’s and even “compiled his on kernel own Gentoo”. Yeah, okay, he ran a command that did all the compiling for him via Gentoo scripts. Anyway, the video was him bitching about how he can’t do any serious work on Linux and that is why he was on Windows. What is he posting about now? His workflow is now all on Linux and he is bitching about open source video editors not being on par with proprietary ones how he uses DaVinci but there isn’t good audio editing / mixing software on Linux yet.

We have all been on this part of the freedom learning curve. The freedom learning curve is the process of letting go of all of the gilded cage trinkets that keep us unfree and adjusting our lives one step at a time.

I have been there but my hatred of anyone (in my case Microsoft) telling me WHAT and HOW I have to use my computer was so deep I was willing to put up with anything just to get away from those people.

Luckily I was not the only radical extremist and we are here now together.

Yeah, Louis can go eat corn the long way.


I kind of hope you are right. I tend to see it the opposite way; eventually Librem 5 concept will decay until it no longer has even a pretense of respecting user freedom, because it is the nature of human kind to abuse his fellow kind for gain. It makes me love my Librem 5 all the more, because they were able to make this, even if it only ends up allowed to last a short time.

But it seems, then, that you are agreeing with my perspective rather than encouraging me to buy a Librem 11 by shattering my perspective or viewpoint.

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Well, you seem to be a pessimist. I have an optimism bias. An optimism bias basically means I live in a self imposed delusion that is not reality based and it’s evolutionary reason for existing is that it allows an animal to more tolerant of risk and therefore allows one to explore more new opportunities.

The pessimist bias tends to be closer to the reality of the world around us because it reflects how entropy works: it takes zero energy to do nothing, it takes zero risk to do nothing and therefore it is easy for the sons and daughters of great men to throw away the kingdoms they inherited that were hard fought and won through tremendous efforts. Yes, things go to shit for a very good reason, people are stupid and lazy.

My optimism bias drives me to seek to change the world around us because I realise that I only need 10% to 50% of the male population to commit to the work necessary to accomplish change and the whole world is ours. The amount of work necessary to fix things is quite small, the hard work is getting people out of the pessimism bias.

Anyway, just do what is right for you. Don’t listen to people like me, we fail more often that we succeed.

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For my threat model, controlling the radio is far more important than controlling the mic. (Radio in this case means WiFi/BT.)

And I demand that the software operates as a remote exploit.

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You are being cynical, right? :face_with_diagonal_mouth:

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Hardware switches are not really necessary with Qubes OS.

Keeping the radios (cellular, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth) on your device silent is not something that you can reliably do in software, at least not when each radio component contains “blackbox,” non-auditable firmware and hardware.

Cell service providers use the non-silence of cellular radios to supplement location tracking. Companies–for example, Apple–do the same with Wi-Fi. It is possible that this can be mitigated to some degree on Wi-Fi, through MAC spoofing, but that is not certain, as the blackbox Wi-Fi card could still easily broadcast a unique identifier without your operating system knowing about it.

In short, the hardware switches are a great feature, even on Qubes OS.


Qubes relies on hardware virtualization, which AFAIK last time was broken in 2006 by the Qubes founder herself. To me it looks as practically the same level of security.

You just stop the VM to which your WiFi card is connected, and it switches off. I checked that even USB charging stops in such case (for USB VM).

In short, Qubes doesn’t require hardware kill switches for PCI devices, as they themselves also confirm.

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