I think the software won’t be an issue, though the hardware might. Consider if whomever makes the cellular modem quits making the current model, and then a new modem is found that is suitable for use, but uses a different interface. Let’s say purism opts for that modem, and introduces it in their new model of the L5 that has design changes as a result of this new hardware. After they sell all of the old stuff off, there’s no real reason to maintain whatever contracts they have with the manufacturers of the old stuff, so there could be a situation that arises such that your old phone will break somehow and the solution will be to buy a new phone.
The example may be a bit of a stretch, but there could be legitimate reasons for “requiring” the purchase of new hardware. Hopefully it won’t ever come to that, but it’s worth looking into if your old L5 or its replacement parts ever stop being sold.
Your response make much sense, I fully understand the complexities in hardware interfaces.
Yes that is true, but I would like to shift the responsibility for this towards the manufacturer and away from the consumer. Because as a end user I have no power - at all - to make Apple/Samsung not upgrading their phones, but if doing so would end a contract between me and my “Smartphone provider” they would have both incentives and some power to keep the hardware. And if it proves to be impossible, they need to upgrade my phone to keep the contract. (As I mentioned, “the fee should represent this in a reasonable matter”)
They are probably more focused on getting v1 out the door and meeting their existing commitments. As a customer, that is likewise what I am more focused on i.e. getting v1 in my door.
I think hardware component obsolescence is an extremely difficult area because Purism does not control the supply chain and nor are they anywhere near big enough to do so.
As a point solution for that, I wonder whether some kind of bolt-on via the USB-C connector could extend the life of the device. (The cellular kill switch would stop working though. So the bolt-on would need its own kill switch.)
Perhaps they would consider adding a ‘concierge’ tier to librem one that would include some sort of insurance/infinite warranty like you touched on. Ooh oohh!, and they could throw in a VPS on that tier too.
Purism has a good track record of not abandoning old devices (coreboot 4.11: Leaving No Librem Behind), so from that perspective I don’t see a need to make an offer that somehow binds them to that promise - ultimately they could still just terminate such a service contract, and that would even look worse on them.
Besides, if they offered such a thing, flame-wars would ensue how Purism “basically offers a pricy, useless service contract that nobody needs because you can install any Linux you want for free” …
How do I know? Well, that already happened, because Purism already offers “Librem as a service”, as @DemBeesDoneStolenAll just mentioned. While it is not a hardware service, this is essentially the way how Purism would like to generate a reliable source of income, apart from hardware sales.
So, even if you don’t have a need to use (all of) these services, this is a simple way of showing support on a subscription base.
And I think it is good the way it is set up. There is absolutely no force applied on the user to subscribe. Assuming they would add “premium hardware support” to the list, it would have a bad taste to many, as it would be/seem like a downgrade for those who don’t sign up.
So, the philosophy seems to be “buy a device with ‘lifetime’ support, and if you want to show your continued appreciation, get our service bundle”.
hello and welcome ! i see this account is quite ‘fresh’ … maybe you’ve been here before …
i don’t understand what exactly is the problem with the current way of doing things ? the way you’ve worded it is suggestive that you fear something MIGHT happen … i see no indication of that happening NOW … do you know something we don’t ?
as you’ve said Purism’s way of doing things is quite different from how other manufacturers like to do things … there is no compulsion here so as long as there is an incentive and people keep buying hardware and contributing to the software/support part of this business things will slowly but surely move forward or at LEAST not BACKWARD
we haven’t even received our Evergreen L5 batch so what is the ACTUAL problem ? imo this is a little to early to think about “securing” the future … is there such a thing ?
Ah, but that’s the beauty of the current system. The modem is on an M.2 card attached via the standard USB interface. You can replace the modem yourself, and it’ll be internal. This means that at some point in the future, your Librem 5 can be updated to run on 5G networks by virtue of you just buying a new modem and sticking it in.
You won’t have the 26 GHz (aka. “mmWave”) high-speed connections, but that sucks anyway because it has about the same range as you physically shouting and is stopped by things like brick walls, cars and your hand.
The phrase I looked at from the original post was “I use most of my hardware to a point where it isn’t possible to use anymore”, which I took to mean “it is no longer compatible with any of the mobile phone networks”. I didn’t really consider the binary blob issues.
Assuming that it’s USB 2.0 and that the current link is completely saturated, you won’t get any faster. However, it will still work (again, assuming that USB links for M.2 remain backwards compatible as they are for normal cables) - which is the important part here, when LTE gets switched off in 25 (?) years.
hang around and keep an eye on the forums/blog/products-page and you will find out if there is a pre-order for that … right now it isn’t and the FOCUS is giving birth to the L5 without an emergency C section … the head is out it just needs a little push …
Going to happen? I am not aware that Purism has said anything but it would be hard to believe that it is not something that they would at least be thinking about. I believe that they were previously doing something with a tablet but that maybe that went “on hold” when they started work on the Librem 5. Once the L5 is born, hopefully they will pick up the tablet project. Assuming that the L5 is a success, I would definitely be a potential customer / backer for a tablet (Librem 10? - yeah I’m putting in a plug for a 10" screen).
I believe the industry as a whole is moving towards “subscriptions” for hardware, a rent-seeking practice I find disgusting if I must be honest. Also, service isn’t a right, but property rights are. Stick to the higher legal ground wherever possible.
When you buy something, you own it. When you subscribe to something, they own it, and can terminate your access at their discretion. Reminds me of Apple. Even when you buy it it’s treated like a subscription.
Yeah I also stated just that, it is important that you own the hardware.
Also I find the type of subscriptions you’re talking about to be quite disgusting, but I am even more disgusted by the amount of products the tech industry is pouring out. They don’t care anything about their 5 year old phone or whatever, they just want you to buy the new one.
If I can help Purism to stay alive without having to buy new hardware continuously, but instead give them incentives to maintain and upgrade their old then I would see that as a very sustainable option. (I have no interest in subscribing in general as proposed earlier or donate, the incentives must be clear and the amount must be relevant to the cost)
Purism has a huge challenge ahead - especially with their open source/security ambition - when their potential market is saturated and they still have this huge development team employed. Then there are 2 real options, make more products (and try to make you buy them) or remove the team and consequently - since they can’t upgrade their products - go bankrupt. (Yeah, a 3rd option could be to find new segments, but if you believe there is a market for Purism toasters then we can agree to disagree - there is a limited number of segments where Purism have realistic potential)
I work in the tech industry and our dev team is under constant pressure to work with projects that is profitable - and our market is huge compared to Purism potential market (due to their competition) - 80% of our devs work is for new segments.
Anyhow on a positive note, open source has new dynamics that show some great potential in these matters, but I don’t think one can rely on it.
I don’t think market saturation is really a thing to worry about. Only if you narrow it down to the nerd niche (although still many more nerds per year are born than Librems are produced).
But that is not their (only) target demographic. I guess it is best summarized as people who want privacy and security and oppose (consciously or subconsciously) planned obsolescence and surveillance capitalism.
Besides the nerds, Purism already has security and freedom minded businesses as customers for their laptops and servers. It has also been speculated here that security minded companies, organizations and agencies might be very interested in the Librem 5 (USA).
They also want to appeal to “ordinary” people, and depending on their specific needs and how much they are held captive by unfree technology, this can already work to some extent.
The Librem 5 is undoubtedly the most ambitious project of Purism so far, but I can’t see how the team might ever need to shrink (below its current size) for the foreseeable future. Several additional product lines are already envisioned (tablets, NAS/router) or wished for by customers (desktop PCs, printers that don’t track you).
So, I guess for the next decade or two they will not feel the need to think about toasters
Yes I do agree with you that people in security critical positions is a very interesting demographic for Purism to aim for.
But I am not as convinced that the Low Spec- FOSS- and High-price-demographic is a very vast one. But that is just an opinion.
There are roughly 20 million desktop Linux users in the world. If Purism can get 1 out of a 1000 of those people, that would be 20,000. Probably 1% of smartphone buyers (1.5 billion per year) care about security and privacy. If Purism can get 1 out of 10,000 of those consumers, you have 150,000.
As the software gets better and Purism can demonstrate a working phone, the demand will keep growing. I don’t think Purism needs to worry about saturating demand in the market as long as it manages to ship something that has basic functionality and can last a whole day on a charge.
The Librem 5 is such a unique phone, that it will capture eyeballs, and I bet that many of the major tech sites will want to review it. I sat down and made a list of the 1050 innovations/milestones in mobile phone since 1973. I count 6 innovations in the Librem 5 that are new to mobile phones, which is makes it the most innovative phone on the market, since the Galaxy S III in 2013. I’m pretty sure that there will be a long term market for the Librem 5, because it offers features that no other model can match.