What's better for Librem 5 - PureOS or Mobian?

[carlosgonz]

@irvinewade

If Purism supplies you with a computer and that computer incorporates a WiFi card and that WiFi card stores its firmware on flash memory that is inside the WiFi card then … Purism still “provided” (distributed / encouraged use of) the firmware and it is still blackbox firmware - which we all agree is a bad thing.

Good point, but this way is permitted by FSF because it still permit to have GNU+Lnx System fully Libre of Blobs.

@irvinewade

If Purism supplies you with a computer and that computer incorporates a WiFi card and that WiFi card does not store its firmware on flash memory inside the WiFi card but instead requires the driver to load the firmware to the WiFi card’s volatile memory via the interface from the host to the WiFi card (e.g. USB or SDIO) and the firmware is stored elsewhere on the computer in flash memory then … Purism “provided” (distributed / encouraged use of) the firmware and the firmware is blackbox - which we all agree is a bad thing.

FSF does not permit this way because Gnu+Lnx can not be fully Libre of Blobs

@irvinewade

As I said, these distinctions are subtle and people’s care factor will vary.

If Peoples cares differently that is OK BUT They need to Respect Gnu OSes Rules like PureOS, if peoples do not like FSF Rules through PureOS then They need to Go far away to Opensources OSes like Debian, Manjaro, Fedora, Whatever. why? because PureOS is for Free Software Peoples like Me, Why? why not?.

@irvinewade

If the FSF rules require all possible efforts to be made to avoid using any hardware that requires visible blackbox code then, yes, Purism has breached those rules

As i said above Rules are Rules to Protect of the end user from Enterprise what fits.

@irvinewade

In the case of the Librem 14, the gain is better performance and support at all for recent WiFi standards. In the case of the Librem 5, the apparent gain is better driver support under Linux.

If Purism want to do whatever for user like Opensource does then need to removed from FSF.

@irvinewade

In one respect they have strengthened your control over your computer because if you empty the firmware jail then you will be disabling the WiFi card in a way that is not possible if the firmware is stored on the WiFi card itself.

Even if remove the Firmware blobs from Jail there is no guarantee that it will be completely disabled through an Easter-egg microfirmware into controller but luckily it exists a h.k.s.

[irvinewade]

@carlosgonz

Even if remove the Firmware blobs from Jail there is no guarantee that it will be completely disabled through an Easter-egg microfirmware into controller

That is a possibility. (In fact, I would assume there is embedded microfirmware because something has to fire up e.g. the USB client device to the state where the host can download the actual firmware.)

Security is always a game of defence in depth (or, if you prefer, belt and braces).

@carlosgonz

luckily it exists a h.k.s.

If you want to get truly paranoid, the WiFi card can have an “easter egg” e.g. supercapacitor - so that it still has power after the HKS is operated, and the WiFi card can continue to function in low power stealth mode doing who knows what for how long. (May work even better for Bluetooth.)

It is good to have choices about what measures you deploy in order to manage your security and privacy.

@carlosgonz

System

It depends what you (really the FSF rules) mean by “system”. The computer as a whole? Nah, it’s not free of blobs. The disk / root file system / boot file system? Yes, it can be free of blobs. Some other carving up of the computer so as to make the statement true? Yes, the statement is true.

[carlosgonz]

@irvinewade

If you want to get truly paranoid, the WiFi card can have an “easter egg” e.g. supercapacitor - so that it still has power after the HKS is operated,

Well a Capacitor is just a volatil energy what could happen is a hidden battery disguised as a capacitor(supercapacitor).

@irvinewade

It depends what you (really the FSF rules) mean by “system”. The computer as a whole?

Well Userland is already Libre next step for FSF through RCS will be Rootland Libre, but if opensource does not matter get Libre Useland, Rootland(firmwares) will be never, so yes FSF is the only Real Freedom,Security and Privacy for user.