Interesting. The BM818-A1 must be recognizable as a VoLTE-capable modem (even if it’s not working as such yet in the L5).
Cool.
There remains the call connection issue, though.
Almost like @Gavaudan here. About a year ago, I activated Mint Mobile SIM in a spydroid and a TracFone SIM in the PinePhone. Both worked with VoLTE. A few months ago, I switched the SIMs – VoLTE still works in both phones.
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Ah, good to know. Thank you.
@Whe3zy Verizon will probably never support the L5 even if it gets VoLTE. From my experience they dislike supporting unlocked phones at all.
I noticed you responded to my comment in the other thread, so I’ll update that advice here. It used to be the case that you could activate a SIM card in an approved phone, switch it, and Verizon would be none the wiser. I tried doing this with my Pinephone though and after about a week of use my cell connection was changed to a data-only connection. At the same time, I got an email from Verizon saying my “account changes” had been processed. I logged in to my account and had a notification saying “here are the capabilities of your new device” with some other information, but long story short they realized something was up and disabled the phone functionality until I put the card back in my original phone.
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Maybe when we have a few thousand Verizon users in the US that have a Librem 5 and get shut off by Verizon, then a nice class action lawsuit against Verizon might be in order. Attorneys love class action lawsuits against cell phone service providers. If the phone has an FCC certification, then Verizon should have no choice but to accept that phone on to its network. Anything less is an anti-trust violation by Verizon. Verizon loves to charge for services (like they have with hot spot and spam blocking in the past) that should be free. They often use their monopoly power to force subscribers to buy more from them instead of getting any product or service elsewhere. They really need to be sued for these practices at every opportunity.
Yeah, I didn’t remember to mention that both of my SIMs were MVNO to T-Mobile.
If Verizon sold a data-only SIM with reasonable data plan, I’d be happy to use them with the L5 – if we have calls and text bridged to the telephone network, and E2E encrypted voice and SMS/MMS for endpoints that support it. Verizon has great coverage and data speed, even when throttled.
Sounds similar to my setup, I’ve been using a prepaid T-Mobile plan that’s the cheapest I could find ($15/month) and at least at the time I set up the account they had no problem activating my “Quectel EG25-G modem.” Haven’t had a problem since then.
I can verify that the Librem 5 does not work with Verizon, despite supposedly being able to access band 13. The people at the Verizon store tried really hard, but it does not work. I ended up switching to AweSIM, which worked just fine until the third-party issue.
@smd0665, I added your info to https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Cellular-Providers
(Nice username by the way! Was it inspired by a particular component like this or this?)
I tried to get in Verizon, too. They seem to only whitelist phones that “play nice” with their policies, i.e. allow easy sale of products and information. I imagine they get too much money from selling your info to marketers to ever be incentivized to let a privacy phone on their network.
In my opinion, Verizon has the best nationwide network in the US. But Verizon also charges more than any other carrier, by far. Their prices and nit-picking added charges are outright offensive. So I use Mint Mobile. With just my one line, I save a hundred dollars every month that way. Just the taxes on Verizon are higher than Mint Mobile’s entire rates. Ninety-nine percent of the time, I am in a big city. The Mint service is nearly one-hundred percent reliable there. When I travel to a small town, sometimes I don’t have service there. Usually that’s when I am on vacation and don’t want to be reachable then anyway. In the rare event that my car breaks down along side of the road and there is no cell coverage, I have a ham radio and can make a call for help on an autopatch. It seems like a matter of principal not to pay Verizon’s extortion rates. If everyone used other carriers, Verizon would have to compromise on their prices.
If you really must use Verizon on your Librem 5, use a mainstream phone to activate your Sim card. Then simply move the Sim card to your L5 after you’ve already seen it work on the other phone. You may have to configure the APN settings on the L5 manually. Someone needs to write a spoofing program for the L5 that identifies the L5 as another phone of your choice. Otherwise the Sim switching may quit working after Verizon catches on. It seems like that kind of spoof might be legal if you own the other phone you identify the L5 as.
The BM818-A1 modem I have with September 2021 firmware does not make VoLTE calls no matter how hard I try even with the experimental .deb tools provided on github it only makes calls over 2G. I understand this is probably extremely hard to accomplish but any sort of transparency would be great to show basic items like VoLTE being taken care of even though VoLTE is handled by the m.2 modem. Do any AweSim customers have VoLTE working for them? Does the 2019 BM818 firmware work but not the 2021 BM818-A1 firmware doesnt, for VoLTE to function? If the 2019 firmware does work for VoLTE can someone point me in the right direction so I can flash it.
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I have a Pinephone Pro on Verizon in the US. I know it’s not the same as the Librem 5 but I’m still waiting on mine to get to me. I have a difficult time using the PPP on Verizon’s network but it mostly works. I get text messages (not MMS, but I think there’s a different issue than the network), I can make and receive phone calls on VoLTE, and I can browse the web on the cellular network.
I did as @StevenR suggested and activated my SIM card in an “approved” phone; but almost instantly after I moved the SIM to my PPP I got an email from VZ that said they noticed my SIM was moved. In addition, my VZ account online shows an unrecognized device as my line and has a curious display that says the phone calls are deactivated and that it’s a data-only device. I assume that means only 4G VoLTE will work but I knew that anyway since VZ’s 3G network is CDMA and the PPP has a UMTS modem for 3G.
The point is, moving your SIM from an “approved” phone to a “non-whitelisted” phone will be noticed by Verizon. I don’t know if you can activate a brand new SIM in a non-whitelisted phone or not but I don’t think it makes much difference if you use an approved phone first; they won’t be fooled.
I’m pretty sure the modem registers its IMEI with the network and that’s out of the user’s control since all modems run at least some closed source software. I wouldn’t be surprised if the network negotiation and device identification bits were part of the secret sauce but I can’t say for sure. The community expert to ask would probably be Biktorgj.
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Mint mobile as well, but the difference is Mint doesn’t care. They text you saying “we noticed you’re using a different device. Here’s a link to the APN settings you’ll need.” MMS is working too.
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What business is it for a provider to “approve” a phone (type)? I.m.h.o. every phone with the right signal should be accepted as long as the bill is payed.
I’m not defending Verizon’s plans as being good, but the plans I had to choose between had unlimited 5G Internet for the phone itself and differing amounts of hotspot data for whatever tier you purchase. Only allowing certain devices on your network gives Verizon the ability to distinguish between the phone’s data and hotspot data. Again, I’m not defending the practice as being good, but it does explain why they would want to do it.
Another theory, and I obviously can’t speak on Verizon’s behalf, is that maybe Verizon whitelists phones based on the phone’s compatibility to Verizon’s own apps and settings control mechanisms. As @johnk mentions, the hotspot capability is an optional add-on for a phone plan with Verizon that has an additional cost. If Verizon can’t lock down the phone to disable the hotspot capability for those that don’t pay for this plan add-on, customers would be able to use the feature (as long as the phone provides it but most smartphones nowadays do) without paying Verizon… the Librem 5 and PinePhone are good examples of that since their capabilities cannot be artificially reduced based on some wireless provider gatekeeper’s whims.
Another possibility is that Verizon offers device-specific customer support. I’m sure most people here are familiar with the proficiency level of a lot of the industry’s phone or chat based IT support teams and their limitations. There is probably an internal Verizon database for common issues and solutions for each whitelisted device that their technicians go through… like a checklist. Step 1: reboot the phone. Step 2: if it’s Google Pixel : do this procedure to reset to factory default. Etc.
Although my PinePhone Pro is not denied network access or service in my Verizon plan, it definitely feels like it’s considered a “second-class” citizen.
Sure, I agree with your implied point, but I think the actual answer would be: because they can.
I get that you aren’t defending them but those business practices belong in the last century. Data is data. If you are paying for X GB then it shouldn’t matter whether the GB are being used by the phone itself or by a different device that is ‘tethered’ to the phone.
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It’s a disturbing idea that an external party has any control over somebody else’s device. This is exactly why L5 is needed…
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I think their perspective is that they have a say over how their network is accessed/used and being a private (non government) company they are under no obligation to just provide unfettered access.
They may also have the perspective that different devices have higher levels of risk of abuse/missuse and some devices/device types are a higher risk than they are willing to accept and as such they don’t allow them.
As it is currently it is my understanding that these are still private (non government) companies and in turn not a public (government owned/controlled) space/service which gives them quite a bit of freedom to limit access/usage however they want (within some amount of regulation).
I’m not saying that’s how it should be, just how I perceive it to currently be. As such, you may be able to get a librem 5 onto Verizon unofficially and unsupported, but that access could be revoked at any time with no meaningful recourse.