Right. I fully agree with you. I’m just stating that even Gmail and Outlook limit messages sent per day on their corporate accounts. There are differences for forwards versus sends, but anyone doing transactional email in the hundreds or thousands per day should be using a service like Sendgrid or Mailgun or hosting their own similar service on Amazon’s SES or I guess maintaining their own mail server (which no thanks for me personally, I’ll pay pennies to AWS versus taking on that hell myself, especially when it comes to getting an IP address that isn’t auto-blocked b/c it’s used for spam, which eliminates every major VPS company), rather than any user-facing service.
A 20 an hour/50 a day limit is absurd by any metric, but especially when the monthly price is so high. But even a paid Google Workspace account won’t let you send 2,000+ messages a day. Same for Exchange Online.
But a limit of 20 an hour/50 a day is pretty nuts. At that point, you can run against the limit simply trying to invite friends to a party or responding to a group thread a handful of times.
Yes, one group thread started it. Which had more than 20 recipients. I tried again and sent the email in a gmail account because the initial one was rejected.
Which tells me you can receive an email with more than 20 recipients. But don’t you dare press [Reply All].
This also tells me this is NEW, because I’ve replied to bigger group threads before and they succeeded.
Similar here but the company would choose a service that meets its needs in that case. I urge you to contact Purism Support and get an understanding of what limits apply and whether those limits can be increased. Unless you ask, you won’t know.
I would suggest that the Librem One service is more pitched at personal use than commercial use.
Anti-spam is a consideration. If Purism lets some spammer get an account and causes Purism’s outbound mail servers to be blacklisted then you and everyone else using the service will have a limit of 0 per hour.
Sure, and multiply by 3 by having 3 accounts.
Once again though, if I were running a business and I needed to send 1000 invoices a day, I would not be using a service that restricts me to 20 per hour / 480 per day. (It would be too painful trying to adjust the outbound sending process to monitor and stay within that limit.)
Large commercial mail sender operations (like sendgrid), as well as attempting to stop spam in the first place, have a barrage of IP addresses, and rest / retire IP addresses as needed - as well as taking other measures.
Since this is an email account I PAY FOR blocking a REPLY to a group email with more than 20 recipients is too STUPID to imagine.
I am just going to have to delete my account the day after this nonsense tomorrow. Which will be after I warn my family accounts AND after my wife’s flight back home. (The airline is sending her notifications.)
I understand how/why free e-mail accounts would have rate limits. I think 20 e-mail recipients/hour or 100-recipients/day are unreasonable. In fact, hourly limits seem outrageous.
The only limits I have ever hit have been “size limits” (e.g. message < 30 MB). So I looked at common plans:
a. gmail free accounts are not “hourly limited”, but are limited to 500 e-mails (recipients?) per 24 hours. [Aside: The 500 is if you use the browser. If you are using their SMTP connection, it’s 100.]. Paid google accounts are limited to 2000/day.
b. proton free accounts are limited to 50/hour and 150/day. That seems crazy. They don’t specify the limits for paid proton accounts, but says that it depends on your account’s “reputation”.
c. Office365 is limited to 10,000/day and 30/min.
d. Yahoo! mail is limited to 500/day and 100/hour.
I think that is why my job’s tool that generates invoices, purchase orders, sales orders, docs, and spreadsheet emails had to change the script code to point to an SMTP server instead of an Exchange server.
A couple years back, someone used a paid Purism account to send spam email. I’ll see if I can find a thread on that.
People who have been here awhile might remember GMail etc started blocking emails coming in from Librem One. Purism agreed to put into place controls to get off the “naughty list”. The limits, I believe, were part of that.
Thankfully this forum is not tied to the email address, but rather a username. So I won’t miss ya. And there is still the L5+Awesim account.
Actually I won’t cancel, but I’ll just cancel the credit card it is tied to. They’ll ask for a new card when it doesn’t work and I can say “meh”. I got another card from the same institution with a bigger cash-reward. I wonder what other accounts I have subscribed to will come out from under that rock? They will all come back and ask for a new card when it doesn’t work. Probably a good practice to change cards pariodically.
Just remember though … it is not really free. You are paying for it with your privacy. For a public mailing list run by e.g. tracy that probably doesn’t matter so much.
Then there is the question of respect for the recipients on the mailing list whose privacy is also compromised if they ever contribute.
Hahahahaha, hahaha. Gmail controls the rate limit Purism email is allowed to send at.
What a world. Google, geez, what a company. Totally not an evil monopoly. They simply get to control the rate other email providers can send at, because they’re the one big guy who calls the shots, that’s all.
Can you provide a more explicit citation for that? I couldn’t find any evidence in the topic that you linked.
Nevertheless, having outbound limits is sensible policy even if not forced to by the peer inbound server.
This needs to be supported as being accurate before we worry about lawyering up.
However the reality is that almost every inbound mail server applies logic to manage spam - and sometimes that logic is painful for everyone else - painful for the recipient (their customer), painful for the sender, painful for the sending server.
I have looked for a more explicit citation. I’m just glad I remembered there was a forum topic on Purism having trouble with spam Also I remember I was missing emails as well, so remember some of the conversation around it.
I have a vague memory of talking to Kyle Rankin or Dorota about it on Matrix, but after 3+ years my memory on it is fuzzy.
Maybe someone from Purism can jump in. If I find it in these forums, I’ll post an additional link.
Noone disputes that there is a limit. The question was about the circumstances in which the limit was instituted i.e. was Purism really coerced by a blacklist operator / by Google / by anyone else? was the limit even instituted at that time?
I don’t see something in here specifically for what I posted:
So maybe I’m putting things together that shouldn’t be put together. Or it could have been in Matrix that I saw it.
What we do know though, is that some Spammers had a paid account(s) in 2021, and Librem Mail got blocked and worked “with providers like gmail”. And that in a later thread Joao confirmed there were limits on recipients.
