Beyond disappointing, bordering on Fraud

Hardware
37

This is basically the line of the discussion I had with support.

  1. The shipped an item with a known issue.
  2. The issue itself does not seem completely resolved. There are mixed reports of it being resolved while some users still seem to have the same issue, even recently.
  3. Damage is defined as “not pristine”. Even if they willingly admit any damage had nothing to do with the issue, they blame the customer.
  4. They are a small laptop company and with how many units they ship, probably not worth the time/effort for a class action law suit.

The result as I see it is Purism not lasting long in the longrun. Still no ETA on my RMA. In this case, literally no matter what Purism says, they are STILL in violation of the EU consumer protection regulations, in about 2-3 cases. Given the time frame, I could have opted for a refund completely without an RMA, because that is the local regulation. They even do not comply with that.

In short, Purism:

  1. Has no real respect for the regulations in the markets they operate.
  2. Are willing to knowingly ship faulty products and not honor legal regulations.
  3. Keep quiet about the issues at hand. In my case, someone said there was a firmware update. That is great, except, support never told me that. I think it is relevant to know in this case.

While I wish to support smaller businesses, there is not a chance in hell I would be supporting Purism. If I am ever asked about recommendations, I would say anything but Purism, including a big tech product. This is because above the purported features offered, with the other guys, you actually get a computer that ships without any issues and in case it does, the company actually honors the local regulations and does something to resolve the matter.

1 Like
38

This all reads like you put some scratches and dings on it mate. If you did then your chance of a refund plummets. That’s how it reads to me at least.

39

You mean this? https://shop.puri.sm/shop/power-adapter-librem-14/

40

Yes any Power Delivery USB_C 60W charger compat to L14. DC charger it old technologies, however L14 has a very good DC Texas controller.

41

To me, this sounds more like a warranty case, rather than a refund case. You admitted that you damaged the device, maybe only on the surface (?). I do not think you would get a refund in the EU after the xy-day period (minimum: 14) has passed, even if you sent in an undamaged device. If you send back damaged goods within the refund-period, I doubt that many companies would give you a refund.

What you would get is a repaired device, and maybe asking for that would yield a better result.

Also, almost all Laptop manufactures do not offer any support if you install Linux. Buying such a Laptop for Linux is a gamble, and you might end up without sound for years (eg HP Spectre).

1 Like
42

I don’t think that by breaking my comment into little bits and comment them separately you can get a good grasp of what I’m saying (You can separate the salt from the beef and analyze it, but you won’t discover the flavor of the jerky). :wink:
Just to be clear on one thing: I really don’t consider myself as an eternal unsatisfied person. Nicole’s last comment is exactly what a concerned consumer (which I am) needs to know before being able to make an informed choice (and not a gamble), when choosing to buy a product, that is repeatedly (recently) described as potentially defective.

43

Thanks for the post. I’ve had mine for a few months The problems are just surfacing.
Headphone jack never worked, HDMI connection worked at first, now intermittent. I’ve just lost the ability to connect to WiFi. These things speak to me of poor manufacturing quality.

If the process of getting it fixed is so arduous I can save a lot of mental anguish and time by throwing it away and getting another computer. I’m in Australia, no local distributor, I would have to return it with a months postage time each way. Then no Guarantee the problems would not continue. Lets face it we bought a Lemon. Pure B/S.
Gelphi

2 Likes
44

Hey man, sucks that you had this crappy experience. But I’m kind of puzzled that you ordered your laptop from the US and incurred a hefty import fee in the process, given that we have Linux laptop manufacturers here in the EU as well. Next time you’re in the market for a Linux laptop, you may want to take a look at Tuxedo Computer’s offerings. They’re based in Germany. Some of the guys at the hackerspace have one, and so far, I’ve heard nothing but good from them. Ordered one for my mother somewhere last year, and so far, no complaints from her either. I can understand ordering their Librem 5, since this is a unique device that currently has no locally available counterpart. But Linux laptops have been available outside the US for quite a while now. No more import duties, and way faster (and cheaper) shipping than if you have to send it back to the States. Cheers, man, and good luck getting your issue with Purism resolved to your satisfaction.

[EDIT] Also, not to be a dick about it, but I think technically Purism is in their right to refuse a refund at this point in time. From the link you pasted regarding the European Consumer Guarantees:

In most countries there is a “hierarchy of remedies”. This means that your customer must firstly request that you repair the product, or replace it if repair is not a viable option (e.g. too expensive). You must do this within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience for your customer.

So technically, they are allowed to refuse the refund and instead repair your device and ship it back to you. Given that the scratches make the unit unsellable, it’s not entirely unreasonable of them to opt for this route. Sucks for you, but legally, Purism is not in the wrong here.

He admitted no such thing. He admitted there were some scratches on the shell. These are no basis for refusing to honour the legal warranty (min. 2 year) in the EU. These are considered “normal signs of use”. It would be different if there were dents or cracks in the case, but surface scratches are not considered “damage”.

[EDIT] That said, see my edit above. As long as they’re offering a repair or replacement, right now they’re in their right. If OP wants a refund, he’ll just have to go through the inconvenience of waiting for the device to make it back to him, continuing use of a machine he no longer trusts to work reliably (given that the problem has apparently recurred in the past, even after repair/replacement), extract his data from the dead system if it fails again, and then he can ask for a refund. Which is pretty shitty, given that he lives in the EU and shipping back to the States is pretty expensive, not sure whether he has to pay import duties again, and it takes a while for the device to make the trip to the States and back. But unfortunately, that’s the risk you take when ordering from outside the EU.

2 Likes
45

But, Tuxedo is Clevo, ie System76, as far as I know. The point with Purism, which is why I paid the US import + Purism prices overhead, is that you get as libre and as custom laptop hardware as possible.

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46

You should be able to use the 3.5mm audio jack if you update the firmware.
I recommend that you contact Purism support for the HDMI and WiFi issues. This may be a software issue that can be resolved without shipping the laptop back to California for servicing.

47

Your policy is sham I purchased the laptop over a year now.Never received it. Asked for a refund and still have’t received my refund its been over 6 months now since I’ve been asking for my refund. Clearly it shows no one in the company cares taking money and never returning it.

1 Like
48

I feel that just because other companies are not doing the right thing, doesn’t make it OK for others. Are Librems waiting for a new law to force it’s hands, or will they be ahead if it?
Too, other companies (those mentioned) are heads and shoulder bigger - way bigger than Librem and can afford to not care about their image. Obviously because people still use Facebook, Google, Microsoft and so on spy-machines, they’ll flock to what works. Librem is small by comparison and can’t afford to play the same games the giants do with their customers.

~s

49

The context wasn’t that it’s OK because other companies do the same thing but rather providing evidence to counter the claim in the previous post that those companies do not behave in said manner.

Removing the context to imply I’m saying something different is a less than honest debate tactic.

At no point did I say that just because these other companies also behave this way it was OK, but rather Amstram made the claim that other companies behave differently without providing evidence then ElimTevir provided these examples with no evidence to back up the claim.

I merely provided evidence to counter the claim that was being made without any supporting evidence.

I have plenty of criticisms of Purism, and I absolutely think they could have handled this better. I also think when making criticisms it’s important to keep things factual to keep from having valid criticisms be overshadowed by demonstrably false criticisms that then devalue all criticism.

1 Like
50

Too many people want everyone to act, think, and do as they would do. I’m not about to join that club. So it goes with the caution:
"Warning. Anything one says can and will be taken out of context and used against one in the courts of Social Media (and forums too).

Sorry you’re having bad day.
bye
~s

51

Thank you amosbatto,
I did firmware update It didn’t solve main problems of WiFi connections and HDMI.
The WiFi went out when I was using both Bluetooth and WiFi at the same time, extra load and heat on components. It’s dry joints from not proper soldering to Motherboard.
How Do i contact Purism Support about a Warranty Issue ?
I’ve tried some things but have no response back yet.
Gelphi

1 Like
52

That doesn’t sound good. Is it a solder joint on the M.2 connector for the WiFi/Bluetooth card?

The standard way to deal with a warranty issue is to email support@puri.sm and describe the problem in detail.

I assume that you installed the proprietary Atheros firmware, if you are using Bluetooth. I wonder if Purism tested using the Atheros firmware.

53

How do you know this? I have read of software issues with using Bluetooth and WiFi at the same time in other WiFi cards. So what specifically makes you think it’s hardware rather than software, and if hardware what specifically tells you it’s dry joints?

54

I’m a pessimist.

55

Probably won’t get anywhere towards a warranty claim with speculation.

2 Likes
56

Is there something that can be done to reduce the likelihood of this battery charging failure occurring with other customers? Human time is arguably the most valuable commodity I am aware of. The time this customer has spent in the return process for a device that literally stopped working is worrisome. I understand that you as a manager at Purism may think that this customer is belligerent, but why not give him the refund and then sell the device for xx% off (marked as open box)? That makes him happy and the person who buys a “damaged” device happy. If this customer tried to get a return and had no operational issues, I would fully understand your response here. However, I truly do not understand why you or your company has taken such a hard response to this customer. This company is supposed to be fun, exciting and inviting but you have come across to me as quite the opposite.

I am not here to berate you or your company. In fact, I am currently saving up for the Librem 5 USA. This is post and your hardened response is primarily concerning to me because I have an interest in this company succeeding and would like to see all of its devices with a Made in USA option at some point.

1 Like