Breaking Ground – Purism


#1

same here - just duplicating the blog post ! enjoy !


#2

I thought this post did a great job of summarizing the technical challenges faced by the L5 project.
When I hear some of the criticism directed at Purism, I wonder if people understand what a truly colossal task it is to do what they’re doing.


#3

This is what I continue to try to articulate. People really just don’t know how hard all of this is.


#4

very good job done by this article, probably it would have been helpful, to have something like this 4 Weeks ago, as far as I see it, most people are angry not because of the facts, but because of the way of dealing with it. But as they stated, they totally underestimated the interest in the aspen batch. This interest of course can be seen as a big compliment to them, having taken on this task!


#5

When one attempts to cross an ocean for the first time, one can speak to those that have had similar journeys (hard to collect real data as much of those that have done this before likely have quite the NDA), one can prepare as well as they can, but the journey will invariably have unanticipated problems.

I agree with everyone else in this thread that has come before me, this is good communication. I love the segregation of the chipsets. This is thoughtful design. And a dogged pursuit of getting Gnome usable on the phone too. That’s a big deal! For a follow up post, I would love to see a walk through of modems, cellular networks, and any challenges Purism faces there.

I’m not entirely opposed to detractors but if one really wants to improve the situation instead of just smearing their emotions all over the screen, they would make helpful suggestions. It’s my hope that posts like this will encourage those who use the forum for less than auspicious reasons to rethink their approach and perhaps engage in more positive dialogue. Not merely polite although that’s a good place to begin as it lowers immediate resistance to what is being communicated but also focused on being useful.


#6

I’m glad that Purism is responding to the criticism that it is too expensive. I don’t think that Purism should do it since it would be viewed in a bad light, but we need someone to write an article that explains why Purism’s phone has cost a lot more to develop than PINE64’s phone and why having two different approaches actually helps everyone and helps grow the Linux phone market in general.

I really would like Purism to talk more about the development that it has done on the drivers. I know that the camera interface on the i.MX 8M is not well documented, so I would love to hear about how they are trying to solve that.

This is the best part of Nicole Faerber’s article:

The release of the Librem 5 is only the beginning. We are committed to continue to develop the software and the hardware, this is not a single-shot project, this is breaking ground and making use of it afterwards.

To me this sounds like a big hint that the work being done on the Librem 5 will be reused in a future tablet, laptop and/or router. :slight_smile:


#7

yea, the phone is the verge of compact and power efficient computer design (watches aside) so after making the phone the road is open to another dimension, new galaxy!


#8

I got annoyed by some comments on Reddit and explained why the Librem 5 costs more than the PinePhone. Hopefully, it will clarify the issue for people who are curious.


#9

Hey that is a cool text, a pity it is hidden in an unrelated subreddit. It might make sense to repost here in the forum or in /r/purism for reference.


#10

RTF --> RYF
Broadcom offered its BLM818 --> Broadmobi BM
But on spot, as always :sunglasses:


#11

As an Electronics Engineer myself, I understand how difficult Purism’s task is with the Librem 5. I am really amazed at their success. But I really don’t understand why they communicate the way they do, and don’t communicate, as the case may be. Typically, I don’t do business with anyone who communicates the way Purism does. Despite my better judgement on many levels, Purism gets a pass (enough so that I don’t cancel my order… yet) because they are doing just enough in an extremely difficult arena, for me to hold-out hope that they will fulfill their promises… eventually. But why didn’t they admit weeks ago that the phone audio doesn’t work yet? Myself and others speculated for good reason several weeks ago here on this forum, that this was the case. Purism didn’t think that we could handle that truth. I would trust them more now if they had told us the truth then about the audio problem. At the same time, I credit Purism for releasing Birtch without further delays. By doing this, they came clean on admitting the phone audio issue. But they should have told us this truth when the Aspen batch shipped, if Aspen ever did ship. Too bad I can’t trust them on that. They haven’t earned enough of my trust to believe that. The fact that I continue to do business with someone I don’t trust says a lot for the technical accomplishments that Purism has made. But there is no reason for them to operate as they do when it comes to disclosing things. Everyone sees through this facade anyway. Purism is it’s own worst enemy. We can handle the truth, no matter how bad it is, unless they are going bankrupt. So why do they choose to operate as they do and thus, fuel speculation? Purism’s technical groundbreaking accomplishments are amazing. Their transparency is needlessly terrible.


#12

Just imagine them saying “We’ll ship in a week. USB is currently non-functional and calls don’t work”. The Nay-sayers would have taken it as confirmation that it will never work out. Backers that only follow blog posts (and are not engineers) might have been needlessly worried.
It’s so easy to misrepresent or misunderstand the impact of such details.

I hope communication will be much easier from now going forward, especially when call audio has been fixed.
Should now just be incremental improvements on Birch. :slight_smile:


#13

I’m pretty sure the reason is that someone (Todd W?) was hoping and dreaming that they would have fixed it before the release. Can’t see any other explanation. Bad decision to gamble like that, but I do understand why it can be tempting. Wishful thinking goes a long way.


#14

Thank you, this perfectly exemplifies where I am at with Purism. I may not perfectly understand the process, but that’s not my issue with Purism. I’m upset with Purism’s handling of issues and not being forthcoming. If companies are truthful with what’s going on as it’s going on that’s where trust is built. When they try to hide things and brush them off or try to explain them away trust is immediately lost. I respect anyone for being truthful and upfront because in the end truth will always come to light somehow so it’s better to just man up and be honest. I have not cancelled my order either yet and I ordered Sep of ‘07, I’m not happy about having to wait another 5-6 months to get something I put in for over two years ago but apparently I’m just supposed to stick my head in the sand and sing the praises of Pursim. In the meantime I will eventually have a pinephone to play with, at least I’ll have some level of Linux in my hand.


#15

Communication is difficult. For every person who wants to see total transparency with all setbacks, there’s likely X (unknown larger) number of people who will panic and/or sabotage the effort in public at the first signs of trouble. Do you gamble that your team can come up with a solution in time, or take a guaranteed PR hit? I’ve no idea what the “right” call is.

Can anyone here say with 100% certainty what amount of transparency would have been optimal? IMO there’s no human on the planet who could figure that out with certainty. :frowning: Mistakes will be made for sure.


#16

@muon, if I could multiple “like” this post, I would. Well said – they are walking a tightrope. Their potential customer base ranges between those who have little technical knowledge but high expectations and those with lots of technical knowledge and low(er) expectations (and everything in between). Keeping everyone happy is well-nigh impossible in this scenario. All things considered, I think they’ve done a competent job of communication – if it’s any consolation to nay-sayers at this point, I’m sure there are regrets at the company about some communication choices so far. But they are almost certainly having to make up their communication plan as they go along.


#17

the “glass” is transparent enough as i see it but in case there is any “condensation” on the “surface” everybody is welcome to “wipe” and look for themselves. :wink:


#18

I think when a major delay or change in specs or function a simple post on here is sufficient . Then anyone invested in this thing knows whats happening and panic doesnt set in due to no contact .

Like this 2000mAh battery issue for instance . Thats a SMALL battery on top of a power inefficient SOC that wasnt meant to be used for mobile applications .

A simple post somewhere on this forum explaining the change of the promised spec of 3000/3500mAh whatever it was to what users are receiving being a 2000mAh battery .

Ya know , I call it common sense transparency that I dont see alot of from purism . I understand they are an introverted company that doesnt put communication apart from periodic mass marketing updates as anywhere near a priority .

Fortunately I have kept my panic in check and im hoping that battery is sufficient for real world daily driver use as I did not pay 650 to receive a side phone I use for fun apart from a daily driver.

Im trying to nix the spy brick . I want samsung , apple , android OUT of my life .

And I think I have made a decent personal sacrifice of all the cool android apps such as my favorite music player Poweramp in favor of supporting this endevour of a pivacy focused linux device as well as Purism in this effort .


#19

They just paid for overnight shipping on 100 phones. Try ordering something with overnight shipping if you do not know how significant that is. If they can send out normal sized batteries later, they probably will. Unless the standard sized part that they were planning on using is too tight of a fit for this batch.

Quality products do not just drop out of the ether. You say that you want more transparency, but anyone who panics easily should not try to handle it. It is going to be a bumpy ride. Anyone who makes it looks easy is not being transparent. Informing laypeople about every bump along the way on something this complex is close to a full time job. I do not mind them being selective as long as there is a quality product at the end of all of this. It is the product, not the journey, that matters here. I do not want to pay for full documentation on every trial and error. You know that for every “common sense” amount of information that they release, that will multiply into more questions and speculation based on this forum’s past performance.


#20

Purism doesn’t have to tell us everything but it would be helpful to everybody if they address fundamental concerns people muy have and express in this forum. Certain things don’t need attention but others do and it is better to address them and tell the truth. Everyone know this is not an easy project and most of us are willing to understand and defend this project. And lastly: there’re too many people shutting down whatever point of view that request for attention from Purism without knowing for certain what they are talking about. That’s another problem added to Purism bad communication manners. We all know this one es the best chance we have. Most of us will wait until the end whatever it is. Purism just have to talk to us and the rest listen. Do not take Purism’s place and let the company to handle it.