I guess at this point Im wondering if I got scammed for thousands of dollars and after many months still no phone???
At the very least if this is a real company they should send email updates on all open orders. Is that asking too much? Maybe I have a different sense of customer service? Maybe my expectations are too high? Im not of the Millidiot era and can change a tire.
Did you read the blog posts?
I have two orders with Purism and I get evrry now and then an email, right now they came in:
95 jun. 16 Purism SPC ( 143) Purism_2043xxxxxx Librem 5 News Summary: May 2021
96 jun. 16 Purism SPC ( 143) Purism_3826xxxxxx Librem 5 News Summary: May 2021
They sent the L5 to every first month backers (sept 2017) before the global electronics shortage impacted them
You can get some general Purism news regularly here https://puri.sm/news/
Do you receive the news emails from Purism like @guru ?
You can check this pinned post How to properly send emails to Purism
I think you can contact them by email at email@example.com about your questions and grievances
Communication may not be Purism’s strong point but I believe it may be a conscious decision not to spam a customer unless the customer explicitly opts in (even though by law they are entitled to spam customers).
You can subscribe to the emailed newsletter.
You can subscribe to the RSS feed, if you prefer that.
Based on current estimates, you’ll likely get one early 2022. I’ve received one, and several others here have as well(They do exist!). Main issue it a CPU shortage as purism is competing with the auto industry for chips.
Not sure if the CPU shortage is Purism’s own coming. If CPU has been identified as part of finalized design and assuming there are about 4k possibly 5k pre-orders, wouldn’t one order all of them at once as they already had to money from the pre-orders?
Why wait for the vendor to deliver it in batches when you already know they project is delayed by days, months, years …
It’s been explained several times, but I’ll answer for you just this once.
@Gavaudan, Thanks for the link. My take, the JIT approach would suit if you have 000’s of orders. For 3k to 5k orders generated during crowdfunding (early backers), I feel it is not a suitable model. Maybe it is just me, but most early backers who have not received their phones do not have anywhere else to vent out their frustration. I saw few others too raising the same concern I had raised, maybe Librem 5 USA can be shipped to early backer as well
You are not understanding the link. The JIT is not on the Purism side, it is industry wide. This is how the industry is able to make money on razor thin margins as the entire supply chain produces product that depreciates in value IMMEDIATELY as it leaves the production line.
Imagine being a manufacturer of hard drives or ram. You have a production run of a 100 000 units. Without JIT, any portion of that run that sits on the shelf starts to depreciate immediately and if your margins are %4 on that inventory it won’t take long before your production run lost you money and you won’t be in business very long.
The entire supply chain is JIT.
Mass production is cheaper per unit than JIT manufacturing, but JIT makes sense if the design or parts may change, which could have been the case with a phone that doesn’t yet have FCC/CE certification. It is still possible that the dev team will discover new problems in the design, since the cameras, smartcard reader and GPS aren’t yet fully tested in the software and the SARS not tested, so maybe Purism was purposely limiting production. Technically, Purism is only allowed to ship development versions of the phone before it gets FCC certification, so Purism had reasons to limit the production.
I’m not sure that anyone outside the company knows for sure, but these are possible speculations for why Purism didn’t buy up the needed chips beforehand:
Purism didn’t want to buy a large quantity of i.MX 8M Quad, because it is hoping that NXP will release a newer version of the chip that fixes the 2 power management bugs in the silicon and the problem limiting the speed of the USB 3.0 bus to 150-170 MB/s.
Purism was waiting for the full functionality to be developed in the software, so it could get FCC certification, so it didn’t want to mass produce a phone on a design that wasn’t yet finalized. Instead, it decided to produce at a trickle until it was sure the design was right, but then it got caught in the global chip shortage.
Purism didn’t have the funds on hand to buy the chips beforehand, and was using JIT manufacturing and trickle shipping as a way to stimulate more orders so that it could get the funds to pay for more manufacturing.
Purism was procuring the parts for the L5 USA, but letting the EMS company in China procure the parts for the L5, and the EMS company didn’t want to take the risk of buying up a large number of chips beforehand without firm order dates from Purism.
Lack of foresight or bad management prevented Purism from acting quickly to procure the needed chips when the global chip shortage first started.
- Mistakes happen all along the supply chain on through the Purism side of things. It’s just how the world works. The modern expectation of everything being available all the time for delivery next day is an illusion based on large amounts of cheap capital available for the supply chain to use to finance the JIT delivery of this magic.
The real world is much messier and less forgiving.
I am in the same boat. I am loosing faith about ever getting a phone. Nothing we can do short of legal action. That would cost more than the phone. So we do not have many options except to wait as they stopped refunds a while back. I requested a refund via several e-mails that went ignored for weeks and I had to finely post here to get a response to my e-mail request. The response was I had to wait until the phone was ready to ship. That might be never I am sorry to say.
They might not want to send e-mail updates as they would be only telling you the phones will be ready to ship very soon over and over again. Still they “estimate” shipping in 180 days. This give new customers false hope. I hate to be so negative, but it comes with the territory. I hope it works out for us all.
My solution was to request a refund… All these problems with chip manufactures… Bla bla bla are not my problem.
What I have a problem with is the USA Version is being shipped right now and is in stock… I can buy it this very second and have it shipped if I give another 1k on top of the 1k I have already paid…
Both phones same hardware and OS…
I sent an email as a courtesy… Lets see how they respond.
These problems affect even Apple and Toyota. These companies can survive that, but tiny companies which actually fight for the users’ rights can go bankrupt. In the latter case, no one will ever receive their phone and we will have to obey Google or Apple masters. This will be a problem of everyone then.
I understand what everyone is saying but I dissagree with decisions that Purism has made handling backorders from a business stand point.
This is why:
Both phones Purism sells (Librem 5 & Librem 5 USA) Are the exact same phone, same hardware, same specs, same everything in everyway. The only difference is one is made in USA the other is made NOT in the USA.
The (Librem 5 USA) is about one thousand dollars more than the (Librem 5) Remember BOTH PHONES ARE IDENTICAL IN EVERYWAY!
I purchased a (Librem 5)(Not USA made) over a year ago. I still have not recieved a phone.
I can purchase a (Librem 5 USA ) phone right this second and get it in six weeks.
If I decide to pay for a (USA VERSION LIBREM 5) right now I will recieve it before the phone I ordered over a year ago. Please try to explain to me how this is a fair business deal to me Mr. Customer? Remember BOTH OF THESE PHONES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. THE DIFFERENCE IS ONE IS MADE IN USA THE OTHER IS NOT MADE IN THE USA.
Purism has pushed out delivery dates for the (Librem 5 NONE USA MADE) phones a number of times.
In regards to the CPU shortages… Namely the IMX8 Processors. I use these exact same single board computers for products my company builds. I purchase these 5000 sometimes 10000 at a time. These also can be purchased in singles or anywhere in between. I have had no issues purchasing or out of stock problems. There are several versions of this single board computer/CPU. Purism may use one of these different versions. All versions are available in high number with exception of two which are available in limited numbers. Either way I would be happy to help source any needed parts using my business contacts. Feel free to contact me. Link is below for CPUs and versions from Toradex.
I do understand business and understand Purisms decisions. New startup companies are extremely difficult to get off the ground. Its a 24/7 mental and physical grind every second. If I may make some suggestions for options?
Communicate weekly with real info from the CEO. If its the same info then its the same info. Be honest, admit mistakes and provide solutions. Sometimes you just got to eat your mistakes and lose a crap load of money to make things right. However, if you are straight up honest and communicating regularly with your customers they will stick by you.
I know the purpose of a USA made version and offshore made version of the phone has two purposes. One provides a secure chain of custody of all individual parts and is made in USA so labor etc…is higher. That makes sense. The other version of the phone is built offshore using same parts with not as high degree of chain of custody. So its cheaper to make. I realize sourcing parts, building a new phone design within standard compliances are difficult.
Covid19 has destroyed countless numbers of businesses due to governments shutting everything down. Business ONLY WORKS FROM CASH FLOW. Key word is FLOW. Profits for any electronical devices are very small so biz makes up for it in selling high volumes of products. If this flow of money is interupted then business stops. Especially after being shut down for over a year. Any cash or profits any businesses may have during this time is most likely gone.
Options for backorder of phones.
a. Ship all backorders of the Librem 5 phone the LIBREM 5 USA VERSION and eat the loss. Time is money, deliver product and move forward.
b. Give your customers the option to upgrade and pay more for the Librem USA Version. But give them a big discount. Dont be afraid to ask for more money. Dont be afraid to tell the truth, facts, or mistakes. The more open the communications the more your customers will ride and die with you. Over communicate and under promise. If I was given the option to pay a bit more and get my phone sooner I would do it right now.
c. Go to bank and or investors and get more money. Keep the cash flow moving. Frankly im impressed Purism made it through the forced Covid debacle. Regardless if you need the money or not. Now is the time to establish or increase a businesses line of credit.
d. Get on the phone everyday with whomever the bottle neck or stoppage is. Bother them everyday. Do it politely. But do it everyday. Get creative, get to know them, establish relationships, be friends, but bother them everyday politely. Motivate them to be on your side and want to go out of thier way yo help you.
e. Get with your business team the people you trust and get and find creative ways to solve issues. Tell them to continue to ponder and provide ideas no matter how crazy they seem.
f. Dont be afraid of asking for money and why you need it. Whats the worse that can be said? No? Purism truly is the first and only company positioned to create a secure private linux product. Any bank or investor would be crazy not to realize and see this.
If I can be of help please feel free to contact me.
Best regards to everyone.
Did you get an update ever? Thanks.
No not yet. To be clear… I would rather have the phone sooner instead of requesting a refund. I dont want to shell out another grand for a new android phone im going to use for a few months… My current phone is on deaths door. I would gladly pay an additional amount for a phone that would ship quicker.