Estimate your Librem 5 refund 💸

Hardware Librem 5
99

Let’s summarize;
You ordered the L5, Purism would like to deliver it. You say No.
They offer you a store credit. Again You say no.

If you don’t accept any of their offers, you are the one who is loosing money.

101

@shopping4purism, I deleted my initial post. But can you please re-read my posts on this topic and maybe understand my point? That Purism has promised a refund several times, then, unilaterally, decided that a refund is not something they want to handle.

OK, so Purism, send me my phone. I am so sick of being treated like a moaning baby on this forum for belvieving in what you stated when I sent you my $600. For a bunch of you, that is maybe not much. For me, that is another month where I can pay my rent. I truly believe in open hardware/software. But I don’t believe in Purism anymore.

And yes, I am “stupid”. I agree. And I am losing my money. I am an idiot for believing that this company would honor their promises.

102

No you are not stupid, far from that.
I agree with you that Purism changing their refund policy is not OK. But fact is they did and you have a hard time to accep this new situation. As I see it, you are having a hard time (financially and emotionally). Financially you have a next best option and you refuse it.That I find difficult to understand. It’s far from ideal, but If I where you, I would choose one of the two offered options. Then try to sell the choosen option. Again not what you had in mind but better then nothing.
Also as soon as you accept this new situation, you will find peace of mind.
That is a big win (for your health). I appoligize for simplifying this issue, but my lack of better English knowledge is hindering me to choose better words.

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103

Yeah, I am stubborn.

But now I have told Purism support to send me my phone. Maybe they will even answer me this time! Who knows?!

If anyone is interested in buying it, PM me.

104

I wonder why Purism is so short on cash, even after catching up on the Librem 5 shipping queue. Could it be that for every promised refund that was not issued, that there are five people out there who would have ordered a Librem 5, but they decided not to do business with Purism at all because they don’t like how Purism does not honor their own agreements (the agreements that Purism drafted themselves) with customers.

Being cash poor at the beginning of a manufacturing ramp-up is understandable. Being cash poor upon reaching shipping parity brings up questions about the long-term viability of both the product and the business. As we all know, Purism doesn’t generally disclose their financial position. But we do know one thing about Purism’s finances. It’s the only thing they tell us (indirectly) about their finances. They are cash poor.

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105

Conspiracy theory time.

A big bunch of smart and evil people saw a huge potential of Librem 5 breaking the Android/iOS duopoly and wanted to stop it. They preordered Librem 5 with intention to cancel their preorders and destroy the company. Purism noticed way too many calls for refund and understood that they wouldn’t survive if they fulfilled them all. The rest of the story is in this topic above.

My comment: Purism did everything right. I hope they will be able to fulfill all refunds when possible though.

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106

Not sure whether I should laugh or cry.

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108

They violated their sales agreements. How can you possibly say that they “did everything right”.

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109

I would go further and say: they promised refund for everyone if the initial campaign failed, the main mistake they made is keeping the refund policy after the initial campaign closed, like many crowdfunding campaign they should have said NO refund after the campaign closed

:100: yep agreed totally :+1:, if Purism didn’t had the delays, he would have received the device before his refund request, no money waiting anywhere, he would be in the same situation and no one to blame.

I also thought of this but I did end up with it didn’t happened
Why ? Because If I was a competitor, I wouldn’t provide cash to a potential threat, you would have to know/predict the heat problem/social crisis/cpu shortage to play that game.
And If I did play that game, I would have order a dozen of device, and then at the first opportunity of weakness from Purism, I would have ask for a refund and hit them with all my lawyer powers (I would not want that from google or Apple), making sure of the bad press in the niche technical world about the trial.
It didn’t happened
So my more realistic theory is just: because of the social crisis in 2020/2021 and electronics shortage, people have lost money, feared to never get the device, didn’t understand the wait for the development and get tired of the delays, [insert other consequences of this period], so many of them decided to ask for a refund

Yes exactly, they protected the business to be able to fulfill all the pre-orders, and in consequence be less damaging (on the social viewpoint)

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110

Thank you @Privacy2 for this post. You penned how I feel. But. I have almost given up now.

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111

Thank you again @Privacy2. I didn’t even have the energy to make a similar comment.

I fully understand the support for what Purism is doing in terms of FLOSS open HW/SW, but… I must be possible to combine this with trust.

Ok, I will re-iterate:

  1. I pre-order a libre phone because I wanted to support this mission. At this time, the time when I was charged the money, Purism PROMISED a refund was possible.

  2. They changed their policy (how on earth can a company change a promise?) and told me that when they reached my place in the queue, it would be possible to apply for and get a refund. (So I did.)

  3. Now, 10 months after applying for this PROMISED refund, they seem to suggest that they won’t pay out any refunds.

I can’t see how this is nothing but dishonest. Purism certainly seems to be a company with really worthwhile goals. Still, they lie. This is a matter of fact.

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112

Discusting that you take rape victims into this discussion. It says much about you and the way you think. That’s all I have to say to you.

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113

Because of this:

But also, their choice allows to eventually fulfill all refunds later and not loose the company. I hope they’ll do it, maybe even with higher paybacks.

Making a Linux phone is extremely hard as proven by many earlier failed attempts. Purism’s calculation was completely wrong, and I think that knowledgeable people could predict that. Purism delayed everything even before the crises.

This would reveal who you are. Purism could sue you back for intentional fraud, and you would also get a lot of bad PR.

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114

Not necessarily, in a totally legal manner, and not an evil obvious one, you could create a good story, then play the victim (I won’t give more details about what I’m thinking of)
But again, my first idea prevail, it’s more: you don’t provide money to a potential threat even more so when making a Linux phone is extremely hard :wink:

115

It’s disgusting that you are telling a victim “there’s nothing you can do, just let them get away with it.” You should be aware that the person you were talking to let me know that they appreciated my response. Think about that.

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116

@Privacy2 I agree that the problem is real. I still think that it’s disgusting to compare lost money to rape victims.

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118

Thats the post that gets these kinds of discussions shut down every time…

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119

As everyone here can see, I am not actually organizing a lawsuit here. Sometimes I’ll make a post like that, just to see how paranoid the powers that be here, actually are. If they shut it down, I guessed correctly. They’re afraid. Should they be? We’ll see.

So they hid that post. I was correct. Everything I said there was said with respect, no disrespect. So they apparently hid it because what I said was correct,… too close to the truth.

120

I call BS.

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121

You don’t have to be paranoid to remove organization of legal actions against your company on your own forum.

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