EU agreed to "ban" encryption

General Privacy & Security
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Blacks Law only works if the government accepts it. In Canada, they don’t. Many have tried dodging taxes, drivers license, and a fellow I know bought a whole bunch of computer stuff, and charged it to the Bank of Canada, and it worked, that once. Blacks Law only help people quote a section of old law, and nothing more.

All a quote from that does is waste 5 minutes of the court’s time and court continues without it. A solution might be to elect the right people and change the laws, not force the issue through the courts because the courts have what Black Law aficionados don’t have - a non-Blacks Law government that is backed by it’s own military, police, and best paid lawyers in the country.

Just say’n s’all,
~s~

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EU is gathering feedback (as in, well formed arguments, not internet yelling, I think) about this, so make yourselves heard - and spread the word: European Commission - Have your say if you don’t want it (open untill 18 June).

And if you need background...

… some similar conversations with good points already made on this, here’s a gathering of some of these threads:

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Does the ban include phones used by those politicians that ban encryption, as well as police, military and ilk?
I’ll wager, govt are not included in the ban.
~s

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Wonder how bank to bank financial transmissions will get done?

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Financial transactions will still get done “securely” i.e. the government will be able to snoop on and potentially alter the transaction. Just a prediction of course.

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hi all, its been a while ago… :smiley:

so i just read this fresh eu initiative, and it isn’t about encryption, but only about metadata collection and storage time… i think the eu actually enforced the spread of e2ee in these recent years… also, nsa already loves metadata, and they aren’t special, just well-known… whatever…

i guess i could only give them good advices for doing worse things, as far as their power can reach, cuz they can’t control the world, but they can make things harder for freedom fighters while they can probably do some good for the innocent Average Joes… they have no power above high-end criminals, those, who have real inpact, organized crime with much money and blood involved… they would need to ban mixnets, vpns and what not (or just the better ones) in order to seriously apply their rules, as i can be virtually anywhere on earth according to my ip address… they would need to stretch their rules to the last country on earth, or just try to isolate them from the internet, like how china made global cyberlife harder for their citizens, but not impossible… poor chinese Avg Joes… probably they would need to enforce citizens too to don’t dare to play their own games with some easy-peasy international roundtrips to avoid their spider web… this game is endless and leads to no good on earth if any power really want to succeed… i guess this one isn’t even serious, not even that bad, and that it aims to make some % better and some international businesses easier (eu-wide services)…

so after all, i think it’s best to leave here some pointers instead, some gems from my recent journeys in cyberland…

(off topic follows, but i guess and hope u will like it! please forgive me for dumping them wherever i arrived, but otherwise i wouldn’t tell these, but i want these to be spread to the right direction!)

simplex chat !!! i shook when i found it, it is excellent, i even started to learn haskell cuz it, it is fundamentally better than anything, u have no user, they can’t ban u! they can only see indifferent packages and someone should prove that it was sent for them… post quantum ready… dns can drill anyones security from governments, this is independent of that! its cli can be scripted around for turning it into a server… its groups are fine… haskell with its pure functions can be tested better than other languages… and more… i’m yet to make it alive on void and alpine (both with musl), but the rest of the world can try it before i will make it alive on my side X’D

lokinet it is a better tor, basically developed for session chat, which is a better signal, but nowhere as good as simplex… so it is ip based!!! this allows torrent and whatever, and torrent with free+usable vpn is next to nowhere on the map… (i still dont use this either, i’m in the middle of a much bigger mess, but it is probably on my roadmap…) last time i checked it, then i found somewhere in their github issues that the project didn’t die, but they have a stable messy initial solution already working, while they clean up the whole codebase like they are hunting anything they can find, so it was a bit chaotic, but seemd like they know what they are doing there…

syncthing it is for file sharing, and its network layer is excellent, and probably its relay servers can be used for any application, basically against symmetric nat for peer2peer networking… otherwise i use this in place of data cable and it is a nice-to-have everywhere, while it knows everything that i would expect from it, like it works on every device, knows much languages, it has fine defaults, it has post quantum security, and i can even use it with ppl around me… but otherwise simplex might be better than this, and i can’t really selectively accept files, but ignore everything except for a file list added manually in order to achieve this…

ssh9 also got post quantum security, just for the record :smiley:

i use luks for full disk encryption and gocryptfs for secure storages on an active system where luks doesn’t help… gocryptfs doesn’t have anti-forensic splitters like luks, but reencryption should be better at this level, while aes-xts (used by luks) can leak some data, but it is the best at the level of block devices, and gocryptfs uses gcm, which is superior… i wanted to use a plain luks header for its argon2id pbkdf which is superior to scrypt used by gocryptfs, but the latter isn’t that bad either, but it wasn’t joyful when i tried it, and i gave it up… it doesn’t decrypt into a folder where forensics can find deleted data (even upon an unencrypted luks device), but it uses fuse to reveal files inside a virtual filesystem! i can throw away my kdbx password storage cuz operating at the level of the filesystem with gocryptfs is just superior, it is the universal interface without the pain of the fixed data fields in kdbx… only cryfs might become better than gocryptfs once it will become mature…

and lastly, about the modem isolation… i thought much about it… if i have an untrusted phone with removable battery+sim and i can share mobile network to a trustworthy linux tablet, then i don’t really need to care about modem isolation inside a phone designed like so… i have a pinephone otherwise, i love it, but it isnt the best phone, but it is nice to carry around my linux swag instead of a whole big notebook… but still, i wish for the impact of librem5 and pinephone, just the security/privacy aspects of the heap of problems with the status-quo can be solved without them…

ps: i’m not sure when will be the next time when i will appear here, i have a mountain on my todo list (where i can choose from putting off some fire on the left or on the right)… it includes cleaning up my protonmail, which is nice as an online identity base, but with the free plan (without smtp) it was a bad idea to follow the development of void linux including its packages, but one day i will help myself with some codes, and until then, i will just nuke some mails from here and there, and therefore im not sure what and when i will find there… it was accidental that i saw a vip here so i had to check in! :smiley:

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You will love my buddy’s company when he starts it then.

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Sorry to say but, they can not do this.

The EU Commission may plan this for big tech companies. But you can ever use Mail Encryption and Messenger encryption to your local p2p Server with XMPP and your favorite encryption, especially if you connect your own Hardware/Server/Domian/Tor-ID.

So no they will not band encryption. Hardware and Neural Networks are some bigger threads.

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can ever or can never ?

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Can never.

Cause we have a foundation on public rights. Based on democracy and human rights in our European laws. So i think it is a can never cause of the values we share.

However right groups and propaganda try to change individual today behavior to switch mindsets to focus on some tech-bro or A.I. or right wing purpose.

But i think that this will never beat the liberal rights or the freedom of math and computation like Linux or the internet.

And yes maybe humans will lost and A.I. have to hold this glory fire for the future in the hands. Because its like (right now) capitalism is the max value to share and free individuals.

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Interesting thought. Create a specific band for encryption, Should t it be HF, VHF, UHF, or SHF spectrum?

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The d was a typo. Its about the space of free new or personal encryption or math. If someone do not understand and could not break it. It will be secure.

They try and they try to use or implement code or neural Networks which will leak Information as assistant. Like a spell checker of good writing. To leak information.

Or like a WLAN Driver will check your Environment and Humans interaction by Signal Transferring speed of tcp or udp Packages. But you still can send some Information though Bytes or colors information in Pixels data on some Meta Level, and extract more Deep concerted info where some observer not now or can detect that.

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Of course I was just messing with you. It could be worse, it could have been “The band on the run”.

And the jailer man and Sailor Sam
Were searching everyone
For the band on the run

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Never say never.

As far as I can see, you are following two lines of thought.

  1. Human rights.
    Yes, protections for human rights in the EU are much better than, for example, in my country but on the other hand, over time, protections can be eroded, chipped away at.
  2. Computation.
    Sure but, firstly, computation doesn’t override the law. If the law says (as a hypothetical) that it is illegal to use encryption then, sure, that in no way stops you from using (unbreakable) encryption but it also in no way stops “the system” from arresting you, trying you and jailing you. Then you won’t be using encryption any more because you won’t have access to your devices or to the internet. And, secondly, you could get the situation where only approved devices are allowed access to the internet and platforms that offer unbreakable encryption are not approved.
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I would love to mess about it too.

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Irvinewade,

i think about genes like computation like humans are some kind of well working together ideas of computation. I think about religion or languages just as parallel sub layers. And its difficult because A.I. undermine the past to progress digital futures, without history.

Information got likely lost.

We have to fight for Linux and this phones because the A.I. is just a small base point with Info lost for the next step.

I hate to say but… you see it right now on fighting earth. They do not try to be together to find a good compromise. They try to minimize the species richness. for the next step.

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7 posts were split to a new topic: Post-Quantum Encryption

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From my daily reads of the tech industry:
Maybe when they do ban encryption, and banning it won’t be hard if it will be stated that just using encryption will be illegal. Both the sender and receiver would be held responsible.
I imagine they could also force ISPs to delete anything encrypted within the EU borders before it is sent, or forward it to the anti-privacy cops tasked with stopping privacy.

The EU could offshore to the US to manage it. :rofl:

I wouldn’t ignore the EU’s threat. It’s becoming more realistic every day.
It won’t happen overnight - baby steps first and they are now past the walking curve, and are now learning to run.

Many countries have tight restrictions on the use of cryptography. Among the more restrictive are laws in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Pakistan, Singapore, Tunisia, and Vietnam

Just my two bits +inflation =50 bits +tariffs=75 bits.
~s

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Oh Sharon this was not fine. China has a great firewall and they just slow down connections. Filtering this could ban https too for example. And everyone will use plaintext http. - No this is not the state of the art right now in China, it was 10 Years ago.

Today i think everyone use 5G, some A.I. Phone and some Apps with access to everything on the screen. Like the US Big Tech got into your computer underwear. Apps, Syncing, TVs, Wlan, Governments Computers. Hosting there Database, there Clouds. Nothing to hide. Go on. Oh there is drive a Tesla in front of your home with some 24/7 ssh connection to Elon… and every X seconds there is a SpaceX Satellite above your Home in Low Orbit.

I think we can not fight it from our positions anymore. But we have to try to fight for privacy and to take the power imbalance into the present of our general knowledge, as social community.

We in Europe try to manage the imbalance of economic power to simulate some fair play. I know, we lost it already, like democracy. If we lost the free will and the free bucks. But with the idea of Linux - and no this is not communism or cancer like Bill Gates describe. We need it to have a human future. Without transhumanism Superheros and Slaves of folks that can’t even read or write. We have saw this in the past so many times and its just a new fight of knowledge on another layer above. But this time its about human itself or a just the big step to A.I.s are the new “humans” super incarnation which build the world.

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That has to be the best way I have seen it all described. Oh, and I agree with you.

Thank you
~s