Europe Plans Law to Give All Phones Same Charger


#61

i’m quite suspicious of anything high powered wireless :sweat:


#62

High powered wireless? I got your high powered wireless right here! And it even agrees with this subject line by being called LaWS.

AN/SEQ-3 Laser Weapon System or XN-1 LaWS


#63

Huh? I’m clearly having a hard time understanding what you are saying or why, but you certainly seem passionate about it.

Can’t disagree with that!

I think Collectivism and Individualism are at odds, but Cooperation and Individualism are not.

Yep, I am a Free Market Anarchist, although I would be very happy if society were largely Minarchist. That means that I disagree with probably 95% of those who identify as some sort of anarchist.

Anarchism doesn’t pick a side, per se, but individuals who decide for themselves how to “organize” pick a side by virtue of making the choice. My brand of anarchy, however, never forces others to take my side.

When it comes to phone chargers, or any other commodity, it’s best to let individuals, acting as market participants, decide standards.


#64

Why?

Anarchism never does that. It seeks to destroy unnecessary and unjust hierarchy (which coerces people).

Market Anarchism and Post-Left Anarchism exist but Capitalism and Anarchism are oil and water. It creates a system where you are coerced into working for others rather than for yourself. It allows for the expropriation of your labor. So I hope you don’t mean you’re an Anarcho-capitalist because that is contradictory. And another example of where freedom is being taken from you is regarding what i quoted below.

In theory I would agree, however the bad and uninformed decisions of others affect the direction of the market. In a few years I wouldn’t be surprised if 90% of phones would drop the charging port, head phone jack, all have a notch, etc. I also wouldn’t doubt seeing smart TVs being pushed on consumers by large corporations because data is profitable. I mean batteries are no longer removable already.

All in all I hope I at least demonstrated that markets can coerce people, and even in ways that cannot be justified. And not to dunk on individualism, egoism, mutualism, or other tendencies. Anarchism is without adjectives, and it recognizes no master, and that includes a boss. Sorta defeats the purpose if you have one.

Very, I don’t see using the state as a tool to subjugate the subjugator as an issue. In fact it’s needed, because many governments have put themselves in a position where they cannot be challenged. The conditions must be right for anarchism to rise. So for the meanwhile, putting apple in it’s place and making it stop coercing people into buying a licensed cable is such a small fry issue. Especially because it uses state violence to enforce it’s patent and licensing. However using the state to subjugate a small business, inventors, farmers (fuck Monsanto) , is harming the innocent. Meanwhile Apple isn’t innocent. They have a lions share of the addressable phone market, and to do it they rely on the state to oppress and subjugate third world nations which are corrupt and allow for child labor (li ion), they subjugate users by taking their freedom away, and they shouldn’t get any sympathy because they force Foxconn workers in an oppressive regime to work under shitty conditions.

In conclusion the lightning connectors are a form of coercion!


#65

First thing which came to my mind :slight_smile:

The fact that I can put my 3g wifi hotspot on the wireless charger in my car and national express coach hints me that yes, such standard exists.


#66

does it even have to be THAT high-powered ? :cold_sweat:


#67

i respect RAW power, wisdom, strength of character, common-sense, knowledge, kindness, mercy, compassion, empathy, and all the other GOD rays that emanate from the DIVINE being that do NOT coerce ANY creatures using FORCE … and that is how it should be in any political/economic system NO-MATTER what it’s called or how many wikipedia pages describe it using human language …


#68

Idk what you mean by RAW power but everything else is covered in the works of anarchists past and present. Companies making proprietary hardware and software shouldn’t. It’s a tool for subjugation and it is unacceptable. The existence of a lighting connector cannot be justified, and it is only used to sell products which expropriate the rights of users. I mean if you really think about it libre software and hardware are anarchistic in nature, it allows for ultimate individual, and collective control. Stallman talks about this at length many times. And even though Stallman was a scumbag he was right about a lot and predicted the issues we have to day as a result of corporate subjugation. This subjugation is accepted because the state uses violence to enforce patent law. Apple exploits the less computer literate with exorbitant fees for mediocre hardware. Even Louis Rossman, who doesn’t agree with my perspective recognizes this. And the hardware is objectively inferior to the specifications of other computers, which then leads the entire industry to opportunistically over charge consumers. This is why an injury to one is an injury to all. The same applies with smart televisions, HDCP, DRM in general and the market as a whole. One ignorant consumer through no fault of his own buys a product which is planned to go obsolete, and the rest of the opportunistic leeches in society follow. I think i’ve reasonably demonstrated why freedom demands that the USB C chargers must become a standard because companies will exploit us. And why exploitation is mutually exclusive to freedom.


#69

to add to this … i’ve seen many SAT-NAV devices that are CURRENTLY on the shelves in my country but have been forsaken (map update wise) by the manufacturers … they have either become insolvent and closed business but are STILL sold at reduced prices across a wide range of computer-shops … M$ embeded CE 6.0 last build 2016 :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:


#70

As getting discount on obsolete SAT-NAV-MAP software some young people might learn from there a lot about open source turn-by-turn navigation by playing around (installing something up to date) with Navit, NAVeGIS, mapFactor Navigator, … on top of WinCE/Windows Mobile navigation (if free traffic info inclusive I don’t know). But still, it might easily/actually be more about (as with all other last year collections like clothing, shoes, etc.) secondary markets before such products land within some third countries as electronic waste (up to my knowledge here subject related). Therefore, IMHO, lighting cables (upgrade to the 30-pin dock connector) should disappear from the EU shelves ASAP (I just saw a lot of them on several gas/petrol stations) even by means of considering how to return them back to the manufacturer (just adding some bitter taste to it, not really serious) as not compliant with the upcoming Q3 2020 EU regulation. For example, TI white paper USB Type-C™ represents breakthrough connectivity (December 2015) writes down: “Alternate mode allows you to transmit uncompressed video across the cable while maintaining USB 2.0 data and Type-C and PD 2.0 configuration only charging capabilities.” And, someone, please consider uploading this definition (for those interested in true story and not in “better choice”; my own financial benefit know-how) within appropriate Wikipedia page:

And I like, as kind of objective approach, this one (linked to September 13, 2012 source) too: Meanwhile Apple has worked around previous EU attempts to push device makers to standardize charging on Micro USB by expanding its revenue-generating dongle collection - and selling Europeans a Lighting to Micro USB adaptor. Thereby necessitating even more e-waste.


#71

Sorry I didn’t read the article because I could not go pass all the privacy cookie stuff labyrinth of yahoo. But I totally agree that the dongle-idea of Apple is even worse. They had it for micro usb and earned even more money by it and they do the same thing for headphone jacks - either you buy their headset or you need to use the dongle lightning to headphones. That’s why the librem 5 does everything right using the defacto standard of usb c and has the courage jack. I would hope everyone does it this way and I hope that this dongle stuff will also not be allowed with the legislation.

Apart from that I also hope that legislation will have an expiry date for the industry standard and one year before the expiry there is another possibility of the industry to get a new standard approved for a new time. Like this you would have a good mix - less waste, less high prices for everyone living on their own platform and still progress.


#72

On the other hand, there would be an ongoing need for dongle charging adapters.

If the only charger that is legal to sell in the EU is USB-C and you have any existing iPhone and your charger dies (or is lost or stolen) then you will need a USB-C to Lightning adapter.

However if it is true that the goal of this (future) law is to reduce electronic waste then the regulators can’t really complain about Apple’s revenue generation.

I still don’t see how Apple can possibly be expected to redesign the current model of iPhone or any future models of iPhone that are in the pipeline to have them use USB-C charging and to do that redesign by July 1 this year.

It is also doubtful whether it is reasonable to expect Apple to flush its inventory pipeline by then. Might be able to pick up a spiPhone “real cheap” in June. :slight_smile:

I make both of those statements on the basis of the fact that nothing is law yet. (The EU could just as easily standardise on wireless charging or decouple charging from data.)


#73

I do not really care how it is done as long as I can get rid of those 40 different chargers that are needed for all the different devices.

EU could require ONE charger type and then stand aside and look at the fight between the companies that have to agree … OR we could restore Colosseum in Rome and send the companies to fight each others as gladiators. It would be a popular TV program in the whole world. Personally I would like to send in some starving lions too but I think EU would not agree.

Well, that is far enough from the subject. Micro-USB is now fairly common in many devices but it is gathering lint in the pocket and is mechanically not very good. I hope USB-C is better but have no long time experience with it. Apple I never use anyway so they can use whatever they want.

Remember those round DC plugs ? Especially 5.5/2.1 and 5.5/2.5 mm. Those manufacturers could be tossed into the snake pit for making problems for billions of consumers.

(Well, that was a joke ! Nowadays you have to tell explicitly what is a joke because there are a lot of people around who could take it seriously. What a world we are living in)


#74

lions are carnivores and they don’t eat Apple(s) … that is a fruit and nowadays it isn’t as healthy as it used to be … unless it’s ECO grown :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#75

The solution for standardized chargers should not be dongles. One can see that this solution did not work for the first standard the industry chose (micro usb).

it’s about the phone to work with the standard - not about chargers for legacy devices

decoupling the data would not follow the goal of having less electronic waste if charging is standardized but there are 5 different data cables or the other way round.

In the end I would not even mind if lightńing would be the standard instead of usb-c. But would Apple want to release that standard and have it to be used by everyone without having Apple to have the monopoly on selling or licensing it? And that’s why I think Apple does not want to have a common standard - it’s about loosing a very profitable business. I think that’s understandable by everyone - but that’s not how they argue…


#76

Perhaps that well illustrates the problems with this kind of proposal.

  1. If it locks in the idea that power and data must be supplied via the same mechanism then this is locking in weaker security. It is legally preventing a phone manufacturer from deciding not to accept that weaker security - and it is legally preventing a customer from deciding not to accept that weaker security.

  2. If it expands from “giving all phones the same charger” to “giving all phones the same charger and data interface” then it is moving from an area of low innovation and change to an area of high innovation and change - to an area that is more likely to be problematic to lock in.

However based on what the EU parliament actually voted, it does not seem to be justified to conclude that the scope of this particular proposal does include any intent to standardise the data interface.

Calls, therefore, on the Commission to take action to introduce the common charger without any further delay

The resolution mentions “charger” in many places. It does not appear to mention data interface at all.

With a common charger that utilises a mechanism that is independent of the data interface, there is no general need for a data cable at all. Since basically every mobile phone is going to support WiFi and WiFi these days can do most of the things that you would do with a data cable, perhaps you can have the option of not ordering a data cable, without standardising the data interface.

Would the EU Commission be bold enough to decouple power and data? I doubt it. Particularly not if they want new mobile phones sold in the EU after June 30, 2020 to be bound by the new regulation. (On the other hand, decoupling power and data would be a more level playing field since it would force every phone manufacturer to change design.)