Heat issues using L5

Please, how to go back from dark theme gsettings?
Thank you :pray:

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gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-theme "Adwaita"
gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface color-scheme "prefer-light"
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Nooo, come back to the dark side!! Just kidding - good to know the instructions together. :slight_smile:

Why switch back anyway, did you see an issue?

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Ahah no no, I’m still in dark mode :wink:
I was just curious to know how to go back to clear mode! Just knowledge!
Thank you, Muon :blush:

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Also possible to change using the dconf Editor or the Tweaks apps.

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Thank @FranklyFlawless - I had no idea we could even turn a dark mode on! This is way better.

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The benefit of more zram for the heat problem was confirmed here: Why and how to extend ZRAM on L5. A revolution for Librem 5 stability! - #52 by veleno

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Seemed obvious. Of course, it’s then a balancing problem to find what’s opotimal with performance needs vs. heat vs. storage resources.

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every now & than i come back to my l5 to check the status. if it is usable in any way. so i did between xmas and new year and remembering the poor power situation (it never lasted longer than 2h for me) i connected a powerbank from the beginning. that relaxed the situation alot and i could at least play around with it. i did vpn, phone calls, sms sending&receiving, browsing - all the usual tests. everything i tested worked quite well. after that i put it into my backpack (suspended).

after a short while (i was lucky!) i touched the fabric and found it quite warm. i looked for the l5 and found it hot. very hot. i remove battery and power bank to let it cool down.

another try ending frustrated. this l5, while a wonderful idea is so far away from getting is useful devide.

:frowning:

Instead of getting frustrated by being passive and such, you should try to trouble shoot the issues. I am sure this community would be happy to help you if you do not know where to start.

I can tell you as someone who daily drives it for 2.5 years now that this is absolutely no normal behavior. While suspending the device is cold (as cold as your environment) and in suspend the time from 100% to 0% is around 20h (maybe more, maybe less). That is not as great as smartphones (Android, iOS), but still usable. 2h can happen on very heavy usage, but in this case it is better to plug it to an external power source, just as you would do with laptops (I mean a pocketcomputer is more aligned to a laptop than to a smartphone).

And as long as you can touch the metal without burning your hand, the temperature is just fine and not dangerous. It is done by design. Purism also could lower this value, but then you would have CPU throttle much earlier. You can read the sensors to know if something is getting hotter than allowed.
The high temperature on suspend tells that your device was not suspended at all. Something seems to prevent it from the sleep state. If it was charging, it could also be the reason for those temperatures.

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because i was afraid of physical damage to the device i removed the battery & powerbank as quickly as possible. what do you suggest to do instead to not being passive (following your wording which i dont really get in this case)? (for the next time i encounter that)

i could touch the metal for a short moment but a longer time would probably have burned my skin. temperature was really high.

i doubt it was charging because it got power from the powerbank since i disconnected charging over night. battery should have been full.

does the L5 and its software have some emergency feature to shutdown everything on high temperature? or will it just catch fire?

What would be helpful to do to now to trouble shoot the issue? any suggestion appreciated.

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It will stop charging on high temperature.

If you want shutdown on high temperature, I don’t think it does that but you could bodgy that up with a quick cron job.

Oh I was not speaking about that specific situation. It is fine to remove the battery if you are afraid of damage. You know, better safety than sorry. Any way, I would only worry if the device would get hotter than 54°C. There are security mechanism for charging and for CPU-cycles that should prevent any higher temperature. The reasons are battery life and security as well as the ability to hold the device in hands. A CPU itself could get much hotter without any issue etc. If the device is trying to prevent higher temperatures (stopped charging or throttled CPU), the red LED is blinking.

But you spoke about issues with battery uptime as well. So my succession was to check logs and try to figure out what is going wrong. For example does the device go to suspend or is it even waking up in the next moment? Are there a lot of background services or are the used applications using much more power than they need to (Firefox etc)? “What causes this short uptime?” should be the thing you need to find out.

Logs can be found via terminal journalctl. Check the documentations to filter via time that you do not get millions of entries (is no issue, but you do not want to scroll through all of these).

There are a lot of different places where you can or cannot find answers and it is not easy to just point you in a specific direction without knowing what you have done while you reached 2h uptime (what programs were in use etc) or what was happening when suspended (charging?). Some more information could help us to understand your situation better to make better assumptions and therefor better help. And when did you get your phone? Summer 2023? This information tells us about the batch and firmware it should have been delivered to you.

2h uptime sounds like one of the first phones without updated software (but it could also be something else).

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I have noticied recently that the over heat on L5 is issue is from a accumulation of unsink heat; this heat then radiates back into the processor and body, causing it to overheat overall. The problem with the Librem 5 is that its internal structure is highly sensitive to heat, which is nice but this is good only for short CPU spikes so it need effective heat sink mechanism for large CPU spikes.
This current L5 design is only suitable for handling short CPU spikes, not large CPU spikes so since GTK is not currently optimized for the L5, it frequently generates large CPU spikes, resulting in constant overheating.
This problem could be resolved either by optimizing GTK and software ecosystem to mitigate these large CPU spikes, or by incorporating an internal liquid-cooling layer to absorb the heat.

As of now on Gcrimson release there are neither GTK optimizations in place nor a internal liquid-cooling solution to manage the heat from large CPU spikes.

I recently conducted an experiment: i plugged my Librem 5 to charging the battery while simultaneously compiling a big software library on process that took three hours to complete on the L5, running the CPU at 100% utilization the entire time.
To facilitate this, i devised a external liquid-cooling layer designed to interface effectively with the L5 is metal casing sensitive. Throughout the three-hour test, my Librem 5 ran perfectly it remained HAPPY all time and the overheating warning light never blinked. My experiment was a success!

What did i learn? Purism could potentially manufacture a protective case featuring an enternal liquid-cooling layer; this case could be designed to catch the L5 heat effectively absorbing the heat and preventing it from radiating back into the device and cpu.

Furthermore, they could optimize GTK to prevent large CPU spikes and redesign the device is external frame more sensitive to air to heat sink, like unflat frame to be with furrows and very fancy metal for air sensitive. : )

While liquid is a more efficient for heat transfer than air, it also presents greater potential risks…

So the Librem 5 is not bad, it is just need some things including a discrete use to manager the heat issue.

Purism

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You’re great, Carlos!! Smart test/experiment!! Just curious to know how to optimize GTK to avoid CPU spikes? Could you please describe some examples just to let me understand it?
Thank you, gracias!! :folded_hands:

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Can you share some pictures from your amazing experiment?

Not much to do until gnu dawn and gles3, however i cracking the nut. stay tune.

Yes i will for you.

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Ok so we need to kick out llvmpipe from L5, whatever if any software get crash, Arctic and Powersave first!!!

⣀⣀⠤⠒⠉⠉⠉⠉⠒⠤⣀⣀ cpu spikes, unicode curve.

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That would be the blind leading the blind. :rofl:

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