How Purism Robbed Me

Hardware Librem 5
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:pray:
@flanders51 you are the best, you know what is Good and True.

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I have been, and generally the Purism employees I’ve interacted with have given me positive feedback to my posts both criticising and supporting their actions.

On what grounds? I did not request a refund and received my phone. You are assigning something to me that isn’t mine.

Why are you attacking me for pointing out that Purism could improve? Do you not want purism to improve?

You obviously haven’t taken the time to actually read my posts from years ago. Yes I have and do criticise Purisms actions when I disagree with them. Yes I also support Purisms actions when I agree with them.

I am actually capable of having different thoughts about different actions from a single organization.

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The post where I tell the OP that if they use the search function they can find other posts on this topic. So ludacrous.

Defining the word customers, insane.

Purism could be more open and honest as a way to improve, radical.

That’s the synopsis of my 3 posts in this thread…

Totally stoking fires with those :roll_eyes:

Then maybe take the time to read before attacking someone that you don’t know anything about. Saying

After the name calling and other flaming this rings hallow.

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They promised a “refund on request”. They broke that promise. It’s quite simple.

Explain to me what you mean here. Or what you mean by “show your true nature”. In most polite societies, we don’t say “people like you.” Say what you mean. Stop being vague and insulting.

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This is depersonalization dehumanization. You might just as well call me “it” or “thing”. Read up on it: Dehumanization - Wikipedia

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And as far as the OP goes (as distinct from the trolls), there is no reasonable entitlement to a refund!

It makes no sense to allow refunds on crowd-funding. In a sense, anyone who crowd-funded the Librem 5 got what they paid for i.e. the Librem 5 has come into existence, whether or not the person chose to receive their phone or chose to refuse to receive their phone.

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I’m glad you’re admitting that they broke their promise.

You keep saying “people like me”. You need to do better and describe exactly what you mean here.

IMO their marketing is deceptive. When Todd Weaver talked about delivering “50,000 units by the end of Q1 [2020]”, that is IMO not just deceptive, it’s an outright lie.

I said “in most polite societies” it’s rude to vaguely say “people like you.” I don’t care if you live in a polite society or not, if you can’t be more specific than “people like you”, I’ll just assume you mean “people with verbal skills”.

As you wish. I do find that your post “contains content that a reasonable person would consider offensive, abusive, to be hateful conduct or a violation of our community guidelines.”

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Did you read that article? Maybe do you use a different language version of Wikipedia?

I followed the link and read the first paragraph and it seemed different than what you meant. The link appeared to describe people who themselves feel detached from their surroundings. But, I thought you were looking for a word to indicate that my description of you was unduly reductive.

Anyway, please don’t take it too harshly. I meant it as a joke – some friends of mine heard Chris Christie accuse Vivek of being “a ChatGPT” during one of those pointless political squabbles in our country that they call “debates,” and it stuck with us as a really silly thing to accuse someone of. So, for me, I was thinking of it as that kind of silly joke, maybe in an inside joke way, because of how it’s pretty silly to accuse someone of being a ChatGPT.

Realistically I won’t be surprised if this thread keeps running for quite a while. Seems to me that the title is a great gutwrencher for people who enjoy their Librem 5’s and see it and want to disagree. Maybe at the end of the day what some of us want is just more people to talk to about Librem 5s who share the interest in this kind of technology.

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Mmm. A clickbait title.

Again, if it were my forum, I would edit the title to remove the clickbait.

Something like: I crowd-funded the Librem 5 then tried to renege
:joy:

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That’s “right on cue”. The part of the community guidelines (FAQ - Purism community) that I’m talking about are:

You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people. Please avoid:

  1. Name-calling
  1. Ad hominem attacks
  1. Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content

There are community guidelines/rules. You’re not following them. You can call it “thought police” if you want.

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And you can see where I advised the OP to edit the title (to not say “robbed”) back in July and the OP replied that he tried and couldn’t. How Purism Robbed Me - #12 by fjames

I think the OP ordered on October 16th, 2017. Purism made it clear on October 24th that orders at that time were pre-orders. I do recall (but can not find) that Purism clarified that all crowdfunded orders were considered pre-orders. But whatever the case, the OP did get promised a refund by customer support and he was told “Your refund is scheduled to be processed at the end of Q4 2022.”. That promise was broken, right???

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I used the wrong word and gave the wrong link. Sorry. I meant “dehumanization” Dehumanization - Wikipedia . It’s common in politics → but that, IMO, should be a sign that it’s bad.

Thanks. I lumped it together with a lot of recent namecalling (which is, understandably, against the community guidelines).

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Probably time to cool it, guys. I suggest you apply the “24 hour rule”.

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I think we all have to agree to disagree on this topic. The only thing that’s going to make the refund-requesters happy is a refund, which seems unlikely to be forthcoming. The only thing that would make the Purism fans happy is for people to stop making legitimate crticisms of Purism’s unethical business practices, which is also not going to happen.

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Or more accurately in my case … limit it to one complaint in one topic - rather than never-ending whining across multiple topics and keep it accurate and reasonable (which this topic manifestly is not).

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You seem to be saying “one complaint per topic” … but also not want “multiple topics” — which is it? By “topic” do you mean thread? Clearly there are going to be multiple threads because there are multiple issues.

For example, I know somebody who paid bitcoin for a Librem 14 and cancelled the order after 3 days. It’s been 3 months and they are still waiting on a refund. Are you saying they should start a new thread … or are you saying they shouldn’t start a new thread? Are you saying this example isn’t also “on topic” for this thread?

It seems to me, you’re just wanting to “not see complaints” (which you are, IMO, uncharitably mischaracterizing as “whining”).

I also must point out that you might think that this thread was new. It started in July … and the OP was simply updating the status. Updating the status of their own thread is not changing the topic. And the thread would have probably have just stayed there if people hadn’t come in to complain about what they, IMO, mischaracterize as “whining”. IMO their (and your) use of the term “whining” instead of “complaining” amounts to namecalling and is what causes others (like me) to join the conversation.

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I think I know who you are referring to:

If the user ever deletes their account:

Summary

What is this, the white house?? 3 months to make a decision on whether their majesties at financial department issues a refund for an order that I cancelled literally FEW DAYS after placing it!!

Was it my fault that I trusted that this company mission is about Purity and I paid them with BTC??? I definitely should have paid with a CC and chargedback by now. ALL those company who proclaim they care about customer privacy and freedom are the worst abusers of those technologies

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Nope. You misunderstood.

“One complaint in one topic” i.e. there is one topic for all the whining about refunds and within that topic each user is limited to one complaint, rather than repeating ad nauseum.

In other words, they should stop spamming me.

As this topic is in the Librem 5 category, I would in fact accept two topics in total about refunds i.e. a second topic for whining about Librem 14 refunds. Which technically makes the story about paying Bitcoin for a Librem 14 “off topic”. Alternatively, the refund whining topic could be moved out of the Librem 5 category so that it could reasonably encompass all whining about refunds. That might be better.

So, ideal world, there is a topic with title: The One and Only Refund Whining Topic
in a category that is not specific to one product.

Yes, obviously that title is metaphorical. I would not expect Purism to be that blunt. Purism customers are free to call it as they see it.

For what it’s worth, the Discourse forum software appears to use the term “topic” rather than the term “thread”.

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I see.

Then I would suggest that we have only one topic/thread for every Librem 5 bug (“Librem 5 Bug Thread”) – all bugs must be there. And only one topic for posts of articles on puri.sm (“Purism Article Thread”). And only one topic for praising Purism or their hardware (“Purism Praise Thread”).

Because, I have to say, having a separate thread for each separate bug and a separate thread whenever there is an article on puri.sm … is really just spamming me.

Or, maybe not. I seem to be able to read the title and decide whether or not I should bother to read the thread or ignore it. I hadn’t thought of it as a skill, but then I see that you spent a lot of time commenting on what you consider to be spam.

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Well except for the fact that you can just not read the forum at all since you own no Purism products and, based on your attitude, never will. Which, as your choice to own no Purism products, is absolutely fine.

This is obviously a ridiculous and extreme position.

Here’s a simple test: how does it help Purism customers?

Jumbling every unrelated bug into one topic? Bad
Spamming many topics with whining? Bad

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