According to the US chamber of commerce, yes yse they are.
Also multiple people have reported not receiving refunds for one product (L5/14) after being customers happy with another product (L13/15). So even if you ignore that the full term in accounting is “Customer Refund” there are still customers not being issued refunds…
Nitpicking at whether one should use past tense here or present tense is ridiculous. There is an an unmet current sales agreement that Purism is violating. Until that is resolved (via lawsuit or refund) they are a customer.
These investments are not cash. They are debt that needs to be repaid with added interest rates.
These investments are not an indicator that purism is a profitable business.
Why not pay refunds with those millions?
Because that would not be legal.
Not exactly. They are convertible notes, which means that there are circumstances in which they wouldn’t be repaid. But perhaps there are better topics in which to debate the finer points.
… and likewise there are better topics in which to answer that question.
Why do you say that? If the money is encumbered and can’t be used to pay debts, you can’t really assert anything about whether Purism might or might not go bankrupt.
Besides, it’s already not legal to not be honoring their sales contracts. Purism in many instances appears to be violating their own refund policy.
I have to say, I was a bit disappointed with Librum5 as I thought the speed of that quad-core had been worked out by maximization in the OS, Not there.
SO I see the 'Liberty announcement that uses a 8core cpu running a bit faster. More ram & storage.
But gotta say I have to play with one before hand. No blind purchase.
As far as delay’s with refunds, I would say it is wrong not to have a quick refund, but I also understand what a strain the pandemic has place on the supply chain that we still have the effects on. So I understand just how much strain this can put on a co’s bottom line and cash flow.
I can only hope other would at least take that in consideration. Not that you have not been ‘wronged’.
But everyone is still suffering from supply chain issues. Some went under, some managed to survive and others thrived from the loss of competition. More mergers and acquisitions expected.
What do you mean with that?
The Liberty Phone has the same quad core CPU as the Librem 5.
After filing a BBB complaint, I have received the following response:
The Better Business Bureau has made two attempts to contact the business regarding your complaint. We regret to inform you that we have not received a response at this time and this case has now been closed as an UNANSWERED complaint in their file. Because we are not a government agency, we cannot force a business to respond. You may wish to contact your Attorney General or like agency.
I have it on my to-do list to publish a video on the incident. People use YouTube to research products and they need to know with whom they are dealing.
Hey, if you do , don’t forget to tell the truth about YOUR behavior :
In October 2017, you didn’t order a non-existing product, your gave money to Purism so they can create and develop a new product, the crowdfunding page only changed in november 2018
Then in January 2022 you decide to treat Purism like a bank holding your sleeping money, when in fact your money has been used in development and production, but you still want your used money back
So don’t forget to tell, after the social crisis and the chip shortage, you selfishly stabbed in the back the only viable GNU project against Android and IOS, and because you missed, you want to stab it again and again.
I agree. I am so tired of all the whining. Boo hoo. Can somebody please post the definition of a crowd-funding campaign? All life is risk. Know your risk before taking a risk you cannot or will not be able to accept.
Purism has some culpability here with their overzealous marketing, but what else could they do to make this project work? I am really happy they are not the Pine company. Real progress is being made for the Librem 5. If you care about free software and alternatives to a duopoly phone market, support it.
Is it whining to expect a company to meet their contractual promises??? I suspect that you’re “tired of all the whining” because you want to like Purism, and yet you know that Purism is in the wrong here. It’s kind of like having a “friend” that treats others poorly — does it bother you when others “whine” about what an jerk your “friend” is???
Some facts:
There are plenty of people who pre-ordered and were promised refunds on request. Purism is not honoring those requests. This refund policy is part of the sales contract and can not be changed retroactively.
Purism clarified on October 24, 2107 that at that point orders were treated as pre-orders (the crowdfunding was done). (See the “Updates” tab of Librem 5 – A Security and Privacy Focused Phone – Purism ).
2017-10-24
Campaign complete!
Thank you all for helping to make the Librem 5 campaign a success. We will continue to take pre-orders, and expect to hear regular updates from our development team! You can follow updates here: Phones – Purism (or Phones – Purism)
The ends don’t justify the means. Their refund policy at the time was part of the sales contract. If you can’t trust them to honor their sales contract, can you really trust them at all???
Purism clarified on 2017-10-24 that subsequent orders were pre-orders. Pre-orders are not crowdfund orders. See the “Updates” tab on the link you gave.
I knew I should not have engaged in this post. Here we go again. Post away. Go to town. You win.
Communicate openly and honestly.
Maybe. Engaging in a polite and rational way is fine. IMO, the problem comes when you paint those who are, arguably, victims as “whiners”.
Well they did not write “whiners”, they wrote “whining”; noun against verb.
They don’t have to do anything more, the project was a great success.
Despite the social crisis and component shortage, they produced and delivered the expected product to all funders
Since they have a stock, they can deliver to customers like any other product and continue the software developpement
Me too.
If it were my forum, accounts would be sin-binned / disabled / deleted. Whine as much as you like but don’t do it on my dime.