Immunization Passports in Europe

General Privacy & Security
83

I think it’s further important to point out that what’s being called a vaccine here escapes the normal definition. Rather, what’s been warp-sped to us is an experimental (highly unconventional), DNA modifying, practically untested substance–the usual approval process takes at least 2 years of clinical trials–with a LOT of questions surrounding it.

Moreover, a vaccine for the common cold (variety of coronaviruses) has never existed that I know. It’s not possible as I understand it, because of the sheer variety of strains. Yet, we’re to believe one should exist now, and that we should all line-up to take it?

Btw, going back to German/European history, wasn’t there a certain transformative leader who spoke to the effect of ‘the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it?’

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84

We must call for change in european union’s hardware and software policies, that are pro established corporations and contra free market.

Enough, for Vaccination Passport, if file with your name, id number, and also… Guess what… SIGNATURE OF VACCINATION INSTITUTE.

Also, COPS that control vaccination, could have their own database, and they’ll just check you by ID.

I don’t know why and I’m outraged by the fact, that they haven’t added information somewhere to their database automatically, or it’s not information on write only part of ID card’s chip.

Call your god, and return your goverment, reason: Stupidity.

They’ll give you new one.

Vacinnation can be written inside your chip on your ID!

Please spread this message across EU, so we don’t have another multibillion dollar app, that’s hackable, sells user data, and is meaningless. I hope you can. I can’t.

85

No. This is wrong, post sources next time.

Please keep to the topic of passports instead of vaccines. That thread was closed, and if this becomes a clone, it will get closed too.

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86

it’s an mRNA type v@x that ‘massages’ your body’s internal protein generation ‘programing’ to something that they CLAIM fights with a v!ru$ which DNA sequence hasn’t been properly demonstrated to have been isolated/purified … search the forum for PCR and you’ll see that this isn’t the first time we’we touched on this …

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87

This is also wrong. Can we please stay on topic instead of making more mistakes?

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88

Sure thing.

Honestly though, I don’t see how anyone could be so confident in this subject–not least lay people like ourselves. We’re talking about the meso scale world, where processes happen so small and so fast that we can’t truly observe them. Plus, merely observing them in the first place changes them.
Furthermore, these systems are only understood as black-boxes (models). Their actual workings is hypothesized about, experimented upon and, of course, those conclusions are revised. That’s science.

That said, we should not be putting our full faith in such models. Nor should we just go along and agree with the next solution–like Immunization Passports. The very term assumes in the first place that this will be accomplished by the bio-tech in question.
To talk about the passport alone and not the immunization part doesn’t add up … I should hope we can continue to talk freely about this.

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89
  1. It’s just offtopic (look at the first post)
  2. Its a topic on which misinformation is spreaded fast so in general sources are welcome for any statements
  3. This is a forum for Purism devices / software / infrastructure / etc. Its not reddit where you can talk about everything. This topic seems okay as it is about an Immunization passport (software) and it acts as a discussion about wether that can be circumvented or used on other devices than Android or iOS.
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90

Censorship stinks.

I wanted to get one goddamn fucking secure notebook, to do proper genetic analysis. Because last time I downloaded Corona from DB, the sample changed on screen.

Vacinnation is created by intelligence, intelligence, how it calls itself, often finds correlations, and being virus free correllates to being sterile.

Don’t take that shit, if you want some future for your genetics.

Chances of dying of Corona in 160year long life is 16% and that’s in case nobody finds vaccinne, people don’t get immunized, and it’s going to be seasonal.

It’s something like closing all the life, because nothing’s happening, but we have some trust in hoaxes like nothing more. Nobody can use numbers like proper tool anymore and … That’s it.

I would rather want to be immunized, because, immunization is process of gaining immunity, and in my definitions, it’s better, than just be injected with weak form of virus, which is just mutated, and not guaranteed to be weaker.

And nobody ever, from public, can look at statistics, how many people died after vaccinnes and how many people died without them.

There’s no study, and no such query on whole bioinformatics as I know it. No statistical toolkit, no format for counting scientific study like that…

Mostly, they pick sub-sample of 10 or so people, handly pick young healthy volunteers, sum it up in excel, and deduce that vacinne is safe.

Then it’s not safer than getting dissease, it’s just they’ve already paid goverment, and took measures to force us to pay money for their vacinne.

It’s like buying anti-virus from microsoft, while hackers got keys to your intel management engine, which by the way I don’t want on anything I want to buy.

Transmission Over.

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91

I have my own very own equations for simulation of electrodynamics of DNA, and I had red whistleblower’s version of how vaccines are made. They are just somehow per-mutated. I would only do immunization serum, by having directly the cytokines of illness in body, and therefore body could prepare possible immune reaction in white cells by modifying them to target suspected cytokines.

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92

Man, I’m sick of it. This is by far the most tolerant forum concerning enforcing of forum rules (especially off-topic) and you are repeatedly spaming this topic and say to a mod that “censorship sucks”. It’s very annoying.

I want to keep up to date with details about how this Immunization Passport will be implemented, wether I can avoid this software and so on. Please let other’s who are also curious about that and me alone and discuss your topic on another forum.

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93

Yes, we can avoid it, by seriously questioning it’s foundation. We can’t treat the Immunization Passport as the problem; it’s merely a symptom. The real problem is the lockdown, the masking, the suspension of our freedom to do business, socialize and travel. Our problem is tyranny, it’s not some virus.

As far as I can tell, the premise of Purism, as a company, as a “social purpose corporation”, is of a political nature. Their essential promise and value (to me at least) is to be an alternative–a FOSS, privacy and security-centric alternative–to big tech (big tech tyranny).

Am I crazy to believe this? I read posts like yours and see rules as ‘no politics in the forum’ and have to wonder.
Moreover, who is the company trying to appeal to–the general masses? Hah. C’mon … Again, am I the crazy one here?

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94

You really don’t understand it, do you? :sweat: This forum is not about discussing COVID, politics, vaccines, lockdowns or masks. There are sooo many forums in the WWW where those topics belong to. This is just spaming and it is very annoying.

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95

I think one has to be disciplined otherwise everything become blah, blah, blah. I asked the original, technical, question because I will (I hope) be going to Italy in a month or two and wanted to be prepared and have a burner phone, if necessary, to manage the immunization passport.

Once the discussion explodes into lots of other topics, as burning as they may be, the point of the original question is lost and those of us who are actually interested in understanding and responding to the question have to wade through a huge number of posts that, as important as they may be to the person writing them, are irrelevant. The lack of discipline, in practice, is disrespectful of the those interested in the original question. I would rather that my question go unanswered than generate interminable irrelevant polemics.

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96

The Round Table category is more tolerant of “politics”.

The “General security & privacy chat” category is perhaps intended to focus on, you know, security and privacy.

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97

I still can’t stop being amazed at a company focused on privacy and free-speech, everything that big tech is against, but won’t allow political discussions on their site…

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98

It would probably take too much time to and energy and distract them from more important endeavours to keep topics too focussed. I think that it is up to us, the users, to remind gently people who veer far off topic that they are not respecting the readers.

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99

Governments will do what their members want, or were paid to do, and we won’t have much of a choice about it, but being compelled to disclose a portion of my medical history in order to accomplish non medical tasks when a disease is insufficiently* deadly seems, in principle, like a violation of the amount of privacy one could reasonably have expected for something like HIPPA to have been made into law.
And creating a two tier society on the criteria of having a vaccine before it’s been approved beyond emergency use authorization and before there’s any liability should it cause problems, just seems wrong regardless of how much or little the public knows about said vaccine. So I’m glad to see a resolution against that SOMEWHERE. I know plenty of people will fall back on the “corporate freedom of association” argument used to justify arbitrary and inconsistent website bans, should businesses start screening patrons through a completely privatized system.
(I don’t have much of an opinion on restrictions of cross-border movement by vaccination status.)
I was worried businesses would start doing that kind of screening when the contact tracing apps rolled out but I guess that didn’t have quite the “ticket to get back to normal” (over-)hype the vaccines have since that’s actually being tried now.

*

The flu is generally regarded as insufficiently deadly, for example. In the context of arguing principles, “sufficiently” is basically up to your personal discretion, just don’t tell anyone about it if you don’t want to get yelled at, “one death is one too many” so they say.

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100

Don’t carry a phone then. If this is truly your concern, you’d consider this.

The last time I flew to Italy, I didn’t have one. That was 2018. Of course, there was no covid then. However, even still at that time, Fiumicino was checking American’s boarding passes well before the gate and they expected you to present it on your phone. Nevertheless, I made it through, because they cannot insist or expect everyone to have a phone.

I recall saying something like this early on. My real point though is if you don’t stand up for yourself, no one else will. In fact, to the contrary. Instead, most people will dog-pile on top of you to conform. Notice how I’m getting a dose of this right now.

101

Thank you for your brilliant insight.

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102

Exactly …
Yet you’re here, querying the libre community, in search of an answer to outsmart the system :sweat_smile: … but, no one can stay on topic though, so that’s the real problem.

Edit: Sorry for the sarcasm.
I think you have but two choices my friend, and I mean this sincerely:

  1. Conform: Get the shots, carry a smartphone and load the passport app.
  2. Protest: Resist it, head on, righteous like a lion, and prepare to follow through–which could mean spoiling your travel plans.

The first option is easy and if you take exception to all the crazy ramblings of a nutter like me, no big deal. Right?
The second option, however, requires willpower and a strong constitution. Not for the faint of heart.

Those are your choices; there’s no such thing as a ‘virgin whore,’ so either buck up or conform.