How long do your other computers last on suspend? 
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Dont know, but my Samssung phone can last about 3-5 days wirh Android and suspend.
So why not Librem 5?
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Among other reasons (e.g. isolated internal components instead of a system-on-one-blackbox-chip), your Samsung phone is not running what is essentially a desktop computer with associated desktop applications.
Personally, I have my doubts that the Librem 5 will ever be able to achieve the same kind of power optimization as a simple smartphone. I hope it can be improved on a lot more, though.
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Wouldnât be an option to halt all processes, which have to do with the desktop applications (except the PIN screen) and only run processes, which have to do with incoming calls and sms? Or is it already implemented in this way?
For listening music there could be an exception that it is a desktop application and then the desktop applications would run, too.
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Yes it is. Iâm not sure why you donât think an Android phone is every bit a âdesktop computerâ as the Librem 5. Havenât my discussions about Termux as well as installing a full Linux distribution (under proot [a fake privilege mode]) dispelled this notion?
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I think the meaning is ⌠out-of-the-box. In other words, you may be able to make it like that but itâs not like that out-of-the-box - which is the experience that is relevant for most actual Android users.
Regardless, this is a relatively useless comparison. I donât care if Android can run for 1 year on a single charge, Iâm not using Android. 
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A desktop computer can more than just run software on a second monitor with mouse and keyboard attached. It can change hardware, can disable sensors on hardware level (usually via unplugging USB, but killswitch is an alternative way), can install any OS you want by default. And itâs not just "a Fairphone can replace parts, a Samsung phone can be used with a close to desktop experience, a Google Pixels let you install other OSes etc ⌠it should have nearly everything in one device by default. Otherwise itâs just a smart device that cuts out functionality by design. And non of these can disable sensors on hardware level (as far as I am aware), which is absolutely required.
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Androids are very capable these days, no argument there, but I wouldnât credit them with equivalent functionalities of a desktop computer (and its operating system).
But, more relevant, what I was getting at is that the Librem 5âs internal components can be considered more similar to desktop/laptop (GNU/Linux) internals, with power draws and power management that is (probably?) more similar to those, due to its separate, isolated hardware pieces. Android mostly doesnât have such separate hardware components inside, as far as I know.
The Librem 5 is also running mainly desktop programs that have been adapted for it, possibly not yet optimized to save power. Whereas Android has its optimized, native mobile apps, as well as aggressive âuni-tasking,â if I can suggest an opposite of âmultitasking.â
At least, thatâs how I understand it from Purismâs historical descriptions of the L5âs design. Iâm no expert on any of this, of course.
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Monotasking
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Btw, I would not say itâs necessary to run desktop programs to be a desktop. There is no huge difference between mobile- and desktop apps. And Samsung also shows how a Galaxy-Smartphone can do desktop multitasking stuff (around 7:00), so monotasking and multitasking can be used depending on the situation. And I also think it would be great to have desktop programs that are energy optimized (100,000,000 people that run a program have a huge impact, even on small energy improvements). All of that just does not matter between pocket computer and smartphones. But hardware and hardware access (firmware) matters. All on top can be everything possible.
Google could make all the code FOSS and upstream it, use an original Linux kernel unmodified and is providing the same Linux experience as we have on L5 - just with energy efficient kernel. The typical smartphone devices with the ânew Androidâ would still are smartphones because of hardware and firmware limitations. On the other hand, this kind of Android installed on L5 would still be a pocket computer.
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I see. The Librem 5 uses a SoC/SoM. Because of that, other than the software it runs, itâs more like a phone/tablet/phablet than a desktop in the sense of hardware. The only hardware that is electronically âmore isolatedâ than any other phone is the wifi and cellular modem (those are usually integrated on the SoC). On the other hand, phones like the Pixel have a NPU/TPU (neural/tensor processing unit) which is more desktop-like than the Librem 5.
There are two issues in regard to power usage.
- The NXP SoC wasnât designed for low power settings. Even the CPU is something like a 28nm fab and power requirements per flop are related to that 28nm. The Pixel 9, I think, uses a 3nm fab.
- Iâm not certain about this, but I also think that the OS hasnât been optimized to deal with the various power usage modes of the SoC/Wifi/CellularModem. Google and Apple spent a lot effort minimizing their power usage.
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My Chromebook Asus C201 can be in suspend about a week. Of course, it has no modem inside. But that is interesting, when I boot mainstream kernel, time in suspend reduces in 2 or 3 times! So, I believe there are some possibilities for librem 5 too, but using some hacks and strongly cpu or board related code in the kernelâŚ
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Youâre right about the SoC. I think itâs just not possible or worth yet for a company like Purism to create new standards that we can change parts on it like on desktop motherboards. However, donât forget that is not the only thing that matters.
Regarding power usage:
- Sadly true. Okay half true. Modern CPUs are all using some kind of low power abilities like reducing clock rate. But at the end itâs designed for automobiles where battery is no big deal for a simple board computer and low power profiles are just nice to have, but no requirement.
- OS is optimized, but still has much space for further improvements. They already spend a lot of time to extend the time from 6h max usage to (dos spoke about) 24h. Google and Apple have just much more work done, yet and thatâs what we can see in the results. Nevertheless we may see further improvements on our GNU/Linux mobile devices (also related to Pinephone, Tablets etc). The process for further improvements may just slow down since things become more complicated.
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You simplify this. Its odd and more complex. Because of the Kernel, the Hardware and it Power Saving Functions.
In the early Linux Days, power Saving was protected and it was hard and need much time to re-implement that feature for usual PCs.
The same we see here too. If you like take a deep look into hibernation.
TuxonIce can be some Key. But for Librem5 it have to be special. Since you would like to have a basic Process that run and wake up when you receive important interactions.
And that are not just Phonecalls and SMS. Its too:
- Wake Up Timers/Alarms.
- Message for Battary with lower than 5%!
- Important SMS Broadcast Messages
- Push-Messages from your Favorite Focuse Apps.
- Sleep but just Play my Music/Podcast from RAM.
- Collect GPS Information, if GPS is active.
Yes thinks like that should be done in Background if you Phone reach a low Level of Sleep.
However, i turn my phone off if i do not need it or WLAN and Mobile. However Using Mobile Data needs less energy here than my WLAN. Think its because WLAN is not optimized, and maybe the Mobile Access too.
To gain the last percentage its hard to focus on that drivers i think because they may be proprietary enhanced, claimed by patents.
But we can find and evolve some better with time and enough nerds, like to focus on that kind of computing to understand it and enhance it.
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L5 Battery v2, may help for power sink by increasing from 4kma to 7kma on same battery size.
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Apparently Flx1 phone which also runs phosh and has better android integration has much better battery life than Librem 5 and even supports 5G . Some users even state that it can last days and with moderate usage can easily last a day at least . And this comes also from a small development team . So it can be done , they have prove it. I do hope that Crimson brings improvements to the battery management department
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Crimson will not bring such improvements. Itâs no magic that glibbers inside your device. As I said somewhere else, Mobian also has not such a long uptime, so Crimson will neither.
And why 5G? For what do you need it right now? I think we have other things on the todo-list with much higher priority. Once 5G becomes important, we still can upgrade the L5.
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I m sorry I meant that even with 5G which consumes more battery than 4G. I really donât need 5G in my case not even 4G to be honest as 3G is still perfectly usable here
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