So maybe Purism is overselling the “hardware-ness” of the kill-switches. It seems like it would be the most straightforward and effective design to have the switches literally break the connection of the power supply to the corresponding components–like how a simple lightswitch in a house works.
But it seems that these switches do not work that way. Dlonk would’ve never seen the behavior he mentions if that design was being used.
I have read a Purism employee describe a “helper chip” that allows the power cutoff to be more gradual, to avoid damage to components.
One way Purism can honestly say that they are hardware switches, regardless of how they function under the hood, is that they are physical switches you can feel with the tips of your fingers, and therefore, they are “hardware”, even if they just send a signal saying “shutoff that component please”, that signal being processed by software somewhere in the device.
One related question, are the PinePhone switches more “real” than the Librem 5 ones?
For reference, if you were to completely remove any one of the switches from the main board then that function would be always-on by default (pull-ups on the board would keep the active-HIGH enable pin of the load switch IC at a logic HIGH level). Even though this failure mode should be caught in QC, it is preferred to the opposite being the case, which would manifest in a way where the function (WiFi/BT, WWAN, cam/mic) would not work regardless of the position of the switch (off or on). The switches are not gated by software. The schematic is here for your reference: librem5_mainboard_schematic.pdf · master · Librem5 / l5-schematic · GitLab
Do your other two switches work as intended?
Your Librem 5 would need to be disassembled, inspected, and likely repaired. You should contact support if you haven’t already.
It’s my understanding that the HKS tells the software watchdog at kernel level to disable in software as the connection in the HOS physically disconnects power. Once power is restored, watchdog should re-enable and show the proper icons.
Yes, after this weird “fluke” happened where WiFi and Bluetooth were available while their HKS should have killed them, when I switched the switch on/off again everything went back to working as expected. Other switches are working as expected.
I really want to like Purism products and I use this phone every day and have been since I got it. If I send it in for repairs - for a one-time “hardware bug” the support team might not even know how to reproduce, my understanding is that it may take them many months for the back and forth because Purism usually operates in a human, slow fashion.
This phone is a Liberty Phone so if I stop using it I would probably fall back on my Librem 5 (China version) but its hard drive is full and its RAM is smaller and I don’t know if I want to downgrade if I can avoid it.
A long time ago, maybe in February, I ordered a replacement Liberty Phone because I like the device and use it every day, and I figured I would break it in the months or years before the order shipped. Is it reasonable for me to hold out until that Liberty Phone ships before I sent this one for repairs, or do we know if those are more like sitting on another 4 months before shipping?
thank you for sharing this. I could not affirm this. Here my Phone disable the wireless connection and posh disabled and mark my wireless Network with a grey shadow.
However, if you need a shut down you should verify it by dmesg.
Just for the Nerds of us… you could also use a Software Firewall instruction to dismiss Network packages. The Hardware Kill Switch is only for us folks who do not trust the Kernel and Hardware and Network Driver in the first place.
To have no Phone available and do not record Data is the best way to avoid something. Its just the sad that in this information warfare world where we are, that everyone have to think about this.
No. The schematics are public. Check for yourself.
In the original post, I’m not sure whether you mentioned the state of the cellular modem kill switch. If the WiFi is off and the cellular modem is on then you should still be able to post to this forum (in a general scenario). I can believe that the status icon might get confused occasionally and not appear / disappear when it is supposed to.
It is probably too late to investigate but I would be checking at the shell prompt for the true state of the two networks and looking for journal entries.
In the attached video, I use the modem switch and the wifi swtich to turn off modem and turn off wifi, and for good measure also turn off the mic/camera switch, and then I write and publish a post on this forum.
So it is not necessary nor useful to speculate that “maybe” I wrote the post using the modem. Frankly, speculating like that without reviewing all of the information that I provided puts you at risk of sounding like a chatbot. Given the other incredibly helpful posts you have made on the forum, I know that you are not – but such speculation is unnecessary.
You are however entirely correct that it would have been more informative for me to go log-hunting for more information. But presumably what we would find is that the software that disables the WiFi when the WiFi switch is turned off (moved downward), on this one occasion, did not disable the WiFi. However, toggling the switch again kicked it back into gear so that the software treats WiFi as disabled now every time since then when I turn off the WiFi switch.
I have been using Librem 5 as my primary phone for a year. I am well accustomed to the state of the modem switch, and frequently have only one or the other of wifi or modem enabled.
Okay but what I saw is that sometimes the hardware kill switch doesn’t kill. So what’s even the point of trusting anything?
Yes you are right, however i think it is possible that you have some hardware-glitch as mention by others. If have two phone, try to check the other one, which you use for battery loading. However it should do what it supposed to do, and maybe you are the 0,01 % of worth folks which was attacked by a parcel interception an got a modified hardware, mentioned by E.S. - which is unlikely but possible. I think you have just rub of some Plastic by usage or a shortcut on your circuit or a physical or biological one like dust or hair.
However. I like the Hardware - Kill Switches. But i bought that phone cause of Linux. Since in my daily life there are so many untrustworthy Systems from Amazon, Alphabet, Microsoft, Apple - that my Friends and Family use. That its strange to have some phone too. However its in the long run the best Option. But if we can not established a free Internet, like in the old days its like only a small wall in our privacy garden. - Right know its Gold Standard.
After seeing this i thought about you have maybe Mobil Data activated. Or that some Connections through Bluetooth are still available. Or that you have a LAN-Connection through an USB-Adapter to a Computer serve you with Internet, or some Bluetooth or Mash - and you like to make some Riddle for the Community here to place this Video.
Or that you just explain and read it, but post from another device. Its possible - but i do not think so Dlonk, because i trust you. So i think your Plastic on your Kill switch have a bad Position or your Phone got Modified. - As i say, i could not verify your phone behavior cause my WLAN got lost after using my Kill switches as i mention and if i have Mobile Data on i have some 3G or 2G Message. However if i have no Internet if have the crossed double arrows on my top bar, which you do not have in your Video after activate the Killing-Switches. So your phone have some Route to Internet. I think it may be some kind of Zero Config in your WLAN/Smart Devices Configuration, on your Routers… like this Zero Config Network Stuff enabled by Apple and some others… Check your Logs and “# route” Settings.
Edit: It could be Ipv6 Configuration too. There will be some Automation if your phone see and find a Carrier any maybe you (or some malware) forgot about trying one configuration in the past. With neighbour Solication and a route to Intert and Zero-Conf it can be that you test this and your phone still find and see this device with Bluetooth or the Modem ( i did not check the ipv6 usage on my L5.) But i know that i can use an establish connections to devices in the same “space” and with WLAN its possible if your Smart-TV have an free uplink or some ipv6 Device you do not know, that can establish a free internet connection for you. Like free WLAN in the Town… Check IPv6 and IPv4 Firewall and Routing-Rules too!
So if the L5 switches are actually software switches that just send some low-level signal to the OS or some firmware somewhere, I’m curious what that means for the cellular service radio chip. My understanding is that chip has it’s own proprietary stuff running on it, and Purism insisted on a separate chip so that the proprietary stuff would be more isolated or something.
So if the “hardware” switch is sending a signal to the Libre Software, saying please stop using the cell radio, how does that actually effect the separate proprietary chip? Is power actually cut to that chip? Or does the separated proprietary chip continue to run, only it is ignored by the Libre OS? If that’s the case, then the cellular “hardware” switch seems to not do anything for privacy, as the proprietary cell radio can continue to happily chirp to its towers, revealing your location and device status to anyone who is interested (Google).
HKS: GNU: I just really happy with Purism for making my dreams a reality with Librem 5 and Librem 14. Purism is Great, Purism is Unique, Purism is Rocket
This is not the case, the switches are not gated by software. They pull the active-HIGH enable pin of the respective AP2281 load switch to GND when flipped to the off position. This removes power to the device you’re wanting to turn off. The issue that @Dlonk is having is likely that the switch is somehow physically damaged and not pulling the EN pin to GND when he flips it, it has nothing to do with software. Have a look at the schematic if you’re unsure.
