Ive been promoting this device all over the internet like I work for purism!

I think its the future . However one person did bring up a possible issue.

I watched a video and Purism CEO said their developtment has been focused more towards making this device work on every network as opposed to testing and working with carriers to see if it will work on their network .

What if Google or IOS see the L5 as a threat and start throwing their weight around and get carriers to ban it as a threat ?

I responded to the poster " If US net works allow huawei devices then Im sure the L5 will be just fine "

But will it ? Is there a possibility a carrier could ban it from their networks altogether ? I mean they allow ancient flip phones with no tracking capability other than cellular triangulation so I couldnt see them banning the L5.

But what if Apple and Google starting targeting purism and the L5 ?


I would switch to a carrier that does not try to attack my privacy and freedom on behalf of Google and Apple. I vote with my wallet.


Obviously such an action would be kind of illegal and thus too risky for 10k phones. It also did not happen for 200k FairPhones and other similar devices (don’t have numbers for non apple/google devices, but also Replicant phones or UBports are not banned and there are dumb phones too). It’s also not simple to target L5 directly as it uses modems that are also used by other devices and can also be swapped. So you cannot just blacklist some IMEIs, and everything more elaborate would be overkill.
In addition, the modems are pre-certified by most carriers AFAIK, and they would have to argue why this suddenly is insufficient.
Also, carriers are not really happy with the duopoly where A & G profit most.

Not impossible, but unrealistic to me.


I think you are doing a god thing here. I also thought of writing to the big mobile manufacturers asking if on one of their phones or on future phones ubuntu touch or postmarket os would be supported to have a long living phone. I think to get linux successfully on the phones we need to get the big manufacturers on board also using phosh, ubuntu and plasma mobile. To get them produce or even considering to alternatively make it possible they need to be aware. That’s why I think I will write them at some point.
This is not even bad to purism as they will always be there for the limit and for pure linux but helping us all having more people on a better eco system.

In the end even google could (and if pureos, postmarketos, etc go for the mayority they will) participate having some kind of gapps which you could install on pureos. That’s nothing any of us would do, but they could save their efforts building android, while still sucking private data of everyone, leaving the rest of us at the choice not to install gapps and hoping there is no other backdoor in pureos :smiley:

Big manufacturers are driven by money, not by ethics. So the only way to get big manufacturers to produce open devices is by refusing to buy any device that is not open. So it goes full circle. For the people to be free the people must act in the interest of their own freedom.


So… You’ve been promoting this device…
I was doing the same thing until I realized it may not work as expected (as a telephone, correct?) at arrival. There’s an issue with the Gelmato.m2 that supposedly come with the phone in the sense that it may not work in my area in USA. I may have to buy and install a modem that works and that idea is very scary for most people. People have been discussing this problem in this forum but still Purism keeps a narrative that does not suggest this phone may not work. There’s nothing in the L5 description that tells the possible buyers they may have to buy a modem and do an installation on the L5. This is something I can deal with, but to the people around me it would sound like a bad idea. So I decided to stop, wait for the phone and go from there.

I am currently on TMobile in NYC but will be relocating to PA. When you say that the modem “may not work in my area” What are you referring to? Now you have me worried!

duuuuude , me too . i wasnt wanting to change hardware :confused: this will be my daily . i hope it works . and what if i travel? i may find myself in an area where my phone dont work and everyone else around me does ?

that dont asound acceptable

What can Apple and Google do to Purism? If they pressure the cellular service providers to not allow the Librem 5 on their networks, it would put the cellular service providers in serious legal trouble, since that sort of behavior is illegal in most countries. As Caliga says, 10k Linux phones is nothing for Apple and Google to worry about in a world which sells 1.55 billion phones per year. These companies don’t want to do anything that will attract government regulators, and targeting the Librem 5 could get them in hot legal waters, so the risk simply isn’t worth it.

If they do anything, it will be making their web services incompatible with GNOME Web (which is the web browser used by the Librem 5), but they can’t target its User Agent string, since GNOME Web doesn’t even set one. If they make their services incompatible with WebKitGTK, which is based on WebKit2, then they will make their services incompatible with the millions of browsers using WebKit2, which is a huge loss of customers.

At any rate, people who have gone to the trouble of buying a Librem 5 are most likely to simply stop using web services from Apple and Google, if those companies makes their services incompatible, so I don’t see how Apple and Google wins. Google occasionally makes its services incompatible with browsers that aren’t Chrome, because it pushes ordinary people to switch to Chrome, but that strategy won’t work with a Librem 5 user.

Well thats all good to know. It’s not like the law stops big corporations from engaging in illegal activity in 2019 .

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Honestly, if this was even remotely possible, Purism would not be able to push this phone. If such a framework existed in the states there would be no room for innovation or new markets. Sure you can point to some things that sudo monopolies have prevented, BUT by and large if Google or Apple try to block any phone in the US market, there are legal ramifications they’ll have to confront as well as the cellphone carriers themselves.

If what you really mean, is will the NSA or other intelligence organization push for a ban? Listen I think the L5 is great, and that security is going to be great on it, but I honestly think that if you have a state level organization after you, it really doesn’t matter. You’re had. Because of this, they don’t need to push for anything. Especially when the product doesn’t break any laws, and is a net positive to that country’s citizens.

It’s not like the law stops criminals operating at any level. Otherwise there wouldn’t be any need for a judicary branch or law enforcement.

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The European Commission has fined Google three times for anti-competitive violations since 2017 for a total of $9 billion.
Google has been under investigation by the US FTC for collecting children’s information, and just reached a multi-million dollar settlement with the FTC.

Google might break the law when $50 billion in advertising revenue is on the line, but it would be an insane business decision for Google to break the law for a couple thousand Linux phones, when the European Commission is almost guaranteed to fine the company if it does anything so blatant as to pressure cellular providers to not allow Linux phones.

These companies may do subtle things, but they want to avoid bad press as much as possible, and going to AT&T or Vodaphone and saying, “we don’t want you to allow the Librem 5 on your network,” is very likely to blow up in their faces and cost them billions of dollars in anti-trust fines and lost revenue due to public backlash.

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Well , I read that the VOIP feature might not work due to carriers not recognizing the L5 as a legitimate ( I dont remember exactly what word was used ) device in one of the threads on here.

So I wondered exactly what kind of freedom do the carriers have to chose what kinda of services they have to provide ( or not )

And then that poster brought up the google apple question . And so I wondered how plausible it was . And if there are laws protecting companies like purism in a sea of corporate giants.

I guess that’s a highly propriety extension. If your modem is standards compliant, voice and data services should work. Now the situating is, that the modem has no connection. So your device connects to the carrier via wireless and says “Hi, I’m the legitimate owner of SIM card 0815. Trust me on this!”
The carrier trusts the device if it signed some binary on it. That’s how I imagine this works, and why it can only work with selected devices.

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What bothers me, Caliga, is that Purism won’t let us know what to expect when people bring up these issues. People like you here have to take your time and try to explain things to people like me so we keep the cool with the project. And, again, people who look for information to decide on whether to pre order or wait are not being told they may have to solve a possible problem in order to use the phone.

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From Purism’s perspective the phone needs to happen for any meaningful change in the consumer space to take place. They are in a tough position because this space is something all the major players do not want. If Purism is free with their comments on speaking about things, they become accountable for those things. The internet empowers a lot of people. Trolls who have all the time in the world to find every possible thing said, and then use it to stir a pot are all too real today.

Combine this with the difficulties of swimming upstream and you have a very cautious Purism making sure they don’t shoot themselves in the foot. Also because of the complexity of security and privacy, explaining things to every customer would be a full time job for MANY people, and would cost a significant amount of money. All something Purism is probably not in a position to leverage just yet.

My thoughts at least…

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Thanks for explaining . I have only a end user knowledge of how all that works . So again , thanks .

Im sure it will ease concerns im sure people have to know there are laws in place to protect the little guy manufacturers like Purism brave enough to navigate uncharted waters.

I cant wait to get my L5 . I know Purism is taking their time to make sure they " get it right " and I appreciate that as well .

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Take a look at this thread:

This is not the only one about this issue. After reading there I realized I may have a complicated homework to do after receiving my L5. I am not talking to anybody about this phone until I know what to tell on this respect.

I wonder if the skepticism here is counterproductive and makes people think a modem should support all possible bands their carrier uses. It seems strange that a modem targeting the US market would not provide at least medium-decent coverage in the US. I wonder how many reluctant buyers actually went to cellmapper.net and checked all the bands used by the modem against their neighborhood. It really doesn’t seem like there are white patches all over the place.

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