I was looking at the specs of the Librem laptops today and read a few reviews. I see the laptops are still using the Skylake processors versus Kabylake. Even as recent as 2017, the laptops, based on processing power, SD card usage and hard drives, were behind other comparable windows and Linux machines.
I truly think what the Purism team is doing is awesome. I would hate for them to go the way of computer companies like Gateway and Compaq. Understandably, there focus has been on the Librem5, to which I have ordered.
I will be looking to purchase a new Linux machine later in 2018 and would hope they are cognizant of the deficits against other comparable machines in the marketplace.
Truth in lending, makes me want to let you know I have a Dell XPS 13 Developer with Ubuntu on it. I purchase it in late 2017. It has the I7-6500 Skylake processor. I know Linux is not a keep up with the Jones mentality, but when other comparable Linux companies and devices are steadily more powerful and for less money, one in Purism’s management team needs to take notice and see where there deficits are at this time.
Other Linux companies aren’t as focused on offering you freed hardware. That is no proprietary blobs for hardware firmware. I assume this drives what components they can offer.
That said I have a x220t with an i7. The i7 in my surface runs no faster than it. Advancements these days are largely incremental with the main focus on power efficency improvements.
Just look at what Purism’s goals are. If those aren’t important to you, then get the latest and greatest.
I appreciate your insights into my laptop concerns. I am definitely into the same goals as Purism. That would be evident by my purchase of the Librem5.
I have included the weblink to the article where the Librem 13 was tested and compared against the competition. I care about what the company is working to accomplish. As anyone in business will tell you, to stay in business you must be able to keep up and sell your products.
The management team needs to not only have their eye on the one ball, but to have their teams eyes on all they survey.
the thing is that unless you compare 28 nm to 14nm cpu fabrication process you are likely not going to see differences in the order of magnitude for a quad core processor. the same will be true for amd ryzen 14 nm process when the new 7 nm drops but it’s likely not going to be that much.
the specifications are acceptable even for 2019. a laptop is not designed to rival a workstation anyway and linux is generally better overall even if you don’t care much about security and privacy but purism checks that too so it’s quite good unless you factor in the price. but then that is another conversation.
I appreciate the comments from the community. I am planning to get a new laptop later this year and I am sure it will be a Librem 13. That being said, my posting was made in hopes of the Purism leadership to read and not forget they do build solid machines, but also need to continually, even incremently, develop newer machines. I do appreciate the fact Purism puts out solid and secure machines. People within the marketplace will shop price and perceived value when buying a new machine. I do not want Purism to go the way of laptop builders in the past. We as Linux users, need Purism to stay relevant, so as to have machines we can purchase when needed.
I do not want the community to think in any way I am bashing Purism for their machines. As stated in a previous post, I have purchased a Librem5 and can’t wait to have the phone in my hands.
@steven.ellsworth40 June 2019 is the target for the next major iteration of the Librem laptop line. The L13 will get a spec bump from Skylake to Kabylake before then, but otherwise identical to current model. When dealing with custom designs at smaller volumes, these things just take longer than with Dell or another large volume selller. Dell (eg) also gets access to Intel reference designs earlier than anyone, so they are able to release new products pretty much as soon as Intel announces.
There’s also the complication of removing the Intel Management Engine. Purism has put a lot of work into reverse engineering the management engine code in order to neutralize/disable as much as possible while allowing the computer to boot.
That process has to start all over again for each CPU release. I’m not sure whether they have managed to get ahead of the game and are close to reverse engineering Kabylake already, or if they will release Kabylake models with the IME intact (since customers are asking for a newer line) and work on the reverse engineering after the release.
I appreciate the information. I will be looking to purchase a new Linux laptop later this year. It is truly awesome to be able to purchase an up to date and secure laptop. If would have know about Purism prior to purchasing my Dell, I would have bought a Librem 13.
@taylor-williamc we’re targeting 8th-gen/Kabylake-R, which still use ME 11.x, and are able to be neutralized similarly to the currently shipping models.
I followed this discussion - and I agree with your position. We all want Librem hardware to be current and free of “baked in” controls.
I purchased a series of Libreboot-ed Lenovo laptops in 2017 looking for a viable laptop solution. They all came short of the Librem 13 I purchased in May 2018. Disabling of the ME is critical to user freedom. I am glad Purism is producing freed hardware and I am proud to support their efforts.
I might be a bit biased here because my main system is running on a 3xxx series QM Core i 7. and you know what i really do not see that the dell 7480 at work is any better or faster. Yes it may have better battery life, but that is about it. it will be nice to see what kind of speed bump design change comes mid year. still don’t know if i will have enough money for one as that is around when my current contract runs out.
@jbloodwo not exactly apples to apples, since those 3rd-gen QM CPUs were 35/45W (for the CPU alone), compared to the 15W for U-series SoC’s (which includes the CPU, GPU, and PCH on a single package). The main thing you will see is the same performance at 1/3 of the power draw, which allows for better battery life, slimmer designs, etc.
An interesting aside, the 8th-gen KBL-R U-series parts (15W, 4-core/8-thread) are apparently just throttled down 7th-gen KBL-H parts (45w, 4-core/8-thread) and can be run as such with the appropriate cooling.
@2disbetter no, one would override the default PL1/PL2 limits. Intel provides guidance, but ultimately up to the OEM to decide the values used. As an example, the i7-8550u used in a Chromebox ships with 15W/44W for PL1/PL2, whereas a Dell XPS13 with the same chip sets them to 27W/51W, despite poorer thermal management due to simple packaging.
Hi. Any of the other members in here can chime in, but the Purism team just upgraded to version 4 of the Librem 13 and Librem 15 line. I just purchased a Librem 15 and waiting for it to be shipped next week.
Unless I am mistaken, I do not see Purism upgrading the line so close to what they recently upgraded.
Yeah…if I bought line and a new one was to come out in June 2018, I too would not be happy…lol. I am sure we are good to go. I am soooo excited about getting my Librem 15. I purchased it with a Librem Key.
Then I can’t wait to partner my laptop up with the Librem5 I recently purchased as well.
