That is why I wrote:
I tried to suggest where you can get funding for which layer.
[/quote]
The separation makes sense. To get the equivalent of Byzantium with a newer base what is mostly needed is “distro” and QA work (what you have under 2.). See https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/OS-issues/-/issues/346 and related issues.
A switch to PW by default would involve some “lower level” work but that is (last time I checked) not a must for the update.
@guido.gunther since you’re not working on PureOS at the moment I’m curious if you don’t mind me asking, are you still daily driving your L5? With Crimson, Byzantium, something else?
@guido.gunther Also, as the most responsive Librem 5-related developer, would you have the time/interest in quoting what it might cost to get some of these Crimson tasks completed so we both A) understand how much it might cost to crowd source enough funding to make this happen and B) start spaming your Liberapay with donations to start getting some traction on completing Crimson tasks? 
In a way, I guess Purism is more and more resembling Pine64, being a hardware company relying on the community to solve the software challenges.
I am still daily driving the Librem 5, but I realize that it is turning into another kind of project than what I invested in 7 years ago. I do hope that this daunting venture will turn into something really useful in the years to come, but as it looks now the major workload will not be carried out by Purism.
I don’t think that alone would allow Purism to build competitive/interesting product. There needs to be a substantial amount of development (both upstream work , integration tasks (which e.g. for pureboot or a phone are substantial at this point in time) as well as downstream bug fixing to make an end user friendly offer. Add to that the same look and feel over different device types, being able to seamlessly switch between devices (requiring privacy conserving backend services etc) and you’ll arrive at a substantial amount of design and development hours even when you build on existing solutions (which you should do if they exist) and contribute those back as free software.
I don’t think there’s much left to do get a mostly usable variant out as “Beta”. The QA will likely (given the resources) take some time but the actual development tasks are rather trivial (especially compared to what was done in that regard already). (See Crimson Experience - #56 by FranklyFlawless and how most of the issues there are either easy to fix or also affect Byzantium like some of the current kernel instabilites).
(The kernel is a separate issue that needs consideration/work, I’d recommend to involve Martin early but it’s not crimson specific, those things affect Byzantium as well)
Sure. It’s Debian Trixie based with Phosh Nightly (Phosh Nightly Package Builds · Phosh) with some packages from Mobian and PureOS.
@guido.gunther , may I ask how you installed Debian Trixie and how you integrate in the Phosh Nightly?
I’m assuming for Debian Trixie, you just have an install image, and follow the the reflashing instructions but replace the images? Or is it more complicated than that?
Back then when I set up the phone for development puroses: by
That is nothing a user should need to do, it’s PureOS primary role to have such things working out of the box. If you want to install anything trixie based right now the Mobian Librem 5 images are a good start (but I sure hope that Purism sorts out the PureOS update soonish).
Regarding adding phosh nightly see Phosh Nightly Package Builds · Phosh (but if you have Debian/Mobia trixie you already have pretty recent phosh, the nightly packages are there to use current git). Hope that helps.
Thanks @guido.gunther !
I do agree with this. My L5 is a daily driver so I’ll think about whether to go down this path, or Mobian, etc. My frustration stems from apps are so old with the bullseye base. And I don’t have space on the eMMC to leverage latest builds from Flatpak.
I do hope Crimson comes along sooner. Even for my L15?!
Thanks again!
Which I think everyone agrees with, unfortunately when progress slows and things arent working out of the box …
Let me ask this question that is back on topic for this thread.
This thread is about providing more funds to free up the logjam to get Crimson realeased. Crimson is the PureOS version of Debian Bookworm (v12). Mobian is actually Debian Trixie (v13 right?). If Mobian is reasonably functional on the Librem 5 based on other threads, ie, I could install and run Mobian in lieu of running PureOS. Then, what is the challenge of getting Crimson released? Or, are we better off going with Mobian?
In a previous post Guido did mention he didn’t think that there was really much work left to get Crimson reasonably viable, maybe not to an ideal state.
I’m just intrigued that: PureOS 10.3 (aka Debian 11) works on the L5, PureOS 11 (aka Crimson, aka Debian 12) does NOT work, but Mobian (Debian 13) does work ok?
Am I missing something?
Mostly the philosophical difference between purism and debian in that debian allows for non-free software in the repositories which makes for different products.
I think the policy of PureOS is to make a new release based on each new Debian release. PureOS Byzantium was released after Debian 11 was released. Debian 12 was released in June 2023 and after that PureOS Crimson should be released. It should not have taken this long for Crimson to become officially available for Librem 5.
I think that’s how it is with Debian versions vs PureOS versions, nothing strange with that (other than the long delay for PureOS Crimson for L5).
Then there is Mobian which you say use Debian 13 (Trixie), are you sure about that?
Guido did mention Mobian and Debian Trixie but I’m not sure he meant that Mobian itself is based on Trixie, I suspect he meant only that if ou want Trixie then you can start with installing Mobian and then go from there to Trixie.
Edit: found here Mobian/FAQ - Debian Wiki that there is “Mobian Unstable” and also “testing”, perhaps one of those corresponds to trixie.
@Skalman, my research lead me to believe that Mobian is the latest debian release. Not necessarily stable, but the most current version.
@OpojOJirYAlG, good point. I hadn’t thought about the non-free software. That would make sense.
I am trying to boot Mobian from an SD card in my Librem 5. I reboot while holding the [volume -] key and briefly see the Mobian logo appear, but after that my screen goes blank and nothing more happens. I let my phone sit connected to power for 6 hours, but still nothing.
Why can’t I boot from the SD card?
Mobian requires you to flash something to handle booting it. I think TowBoot last I checked. Mobian documentation should have that info
Also, in my experience, PureOS works SIGNIFICANTLY better than Mobian on the Librem 5. I recommend sticking with byzantium until PureOS development starts up again, rather than switching to Mobian.
I finally managed to flash Mobian, after booting my spare L5 with Jumpdrive. I wanted to check out the alternatives, as it seems development on PureOS have slowed to a crawl in the recent months.
Mobian needs some tweaking before it will work as good as Byzantium I guess, but at least I still haven’t run into that dreadful issue that makes my laptop docks unusable.
I am still running PureOS on my L5 daily driver.
