Thanks for that, but doesn’t really clearly state whether they had the manufacturer add it on or they did it themselves and if they were doing it themselves why wasn’t this presented to purchasers right away?
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if it was done by purism,which i give a 50/50 of because only the easiest of questions are ever answered it seems,leaving no clarity on this question…then it becomes rather impossible for them to admit they did it after claiming for days to have been unaware of it.
I have had so much confidence and earlier in the thread defended delays (I understand delays, i would have understood delaying further because of what was shown in pictures and where we now find us) but, i feel… unsure now. And trust is everything,when thats essentially part of what you are selling.
The phone developer chiming in feigning ignorance and complete inability to understand why someone might have questions certainly did not help ,and did no favours for you,purism or nicole.
Since i cant refund,as to my understanding that feature is not available untill the order que reaches me,i will wait since i assume you ,and by you i mean purism, want to communicate internally (i hope you do,it seems like you dont,to an extent) and release an update on this adressing the many questions that on the forums have gone unadressed.
there are simply,in my opinion , far too many questions about how this happened. Who knew what,and when? Why were others not informed? Why did a customer discover it? Did purism do it or their supplier? Etc etc. Answers have been given,but none that answer the questions… (my opinion). And i am not trying to be a negative nancy. I sold friends on Purism products and values, tried to contribute and learn and have had no issues with the delays beyond trying to suggest constructively that in uncertain covid times where suppliers might give you a date ,miss it and say “Sorry” leaving you to take the blame, to not announce things untill theyre actually in stock ,storage,ready etc.
In an odd way, this thread charts my own path to going from extremely excited to extremely anxious, regardless of delivery dates or delays.
Sincerely not meant to be a hater, just asking questions anywhere else would be absolutely fine to ask. But as i said in an earlier posts, some members and a phone developer, seem to be more concerned with peoples concern,than why they are concerned.
Nothing against Nicole,Kyle or Purism or its employees.
Sincerely,
Jon Kovach
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For two or three days, two of which have been a weekend, and during which Chief Technology Officer was out of reach. The expectation that everyone in a company knows everything about their products is unreasonable.
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True, but after 6 months of delays you’d think this would be a hot enough topic internally where senior management is particularly in-tune with all current issues.
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So… Cool, we got an apology and pseudo-resolution (??). What does this mean for shipping? Does this mean there is a delay waiting to determine the quality of the solder points and hotfixes? Is there continued investigation that is still underway before shipping more units?
Have more than a handful of people (not Purism employees) actually received units during this ‘Librem 14 is shipping’ state?
Where are we in terms of this often talked about ‘shipping parity’? April is almost over, and there are reports of pre-orders from July that still haven’t received tracking information, so if everything is hunky dory in Purism’s eyes with the ‘fix’, where exactly are we?
A note of advice (likely to fall on deaf ears and blind eyes): Hire a PR person so the engineers can do engineering, and customers can get timely feedback.
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During which one employee stated purism was unaware of this issue and not responsible and looking into what happened , while nicole farbers reply indicated they were not only aware, it was purism who did the hotfix, and then a third answer saying nothing on wether this was done by purism or the supplier but indicating the supplier. All this cannot be true at once.
That a customer discovered it, when it seems purism was well aware (but didnt care? or failed to communicate internally,both equally problematic) is bad. That a phone developer chimed in to borderline taunt concerned customers and then in the other thread kyle closing it by saying well its there and we dont know how it got there,i dont know how it got there,but soldering and hardware is interesting learn more about it, now that all is resolved close the topic and “lets move on”.
What in the what what?
Mine and others questions and concerns are not only reasonable and measured. ANY other company would face a media fecal storm of epic proportions. A noble purpose only goes so far,money does not grow on trees and i put in a fair ammount,i am asking nothing that ANY other company would not URGENTLY wish to clear up.
Again, people are more concerned that customers are concerned,than why they are concerned…
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Excuse me, I never claimed that I have no idea what you are talking about. Instead, I asked in a naive way in order to know your answers, uncolored by what I think about it. I can’t see into your minds, after all.
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If you have a PR person or Community manager, now is the time where they would tell you that you added fuel to the fire, ignored multiple detailed and well written questions and feigned ignorance and that you should perhaps not be one of the now 4 people by my count to offer different answers and different treatment, rally the company and have everyone share everything they know so you can have one (1) person adressing all questions and concerns openly and unambigously… or is this ship without a captain,and individual compartmentalized (and why would you do that?) people giving whatever 1-30% of what they know or think piecemeal to the community and dodging the real questions. Which you did aswell,after multiple people in detail responded to you.
Which is why i am not the only one that thinks you need a PR/Community manager to handle communication from the company,and coordinate a unified response when an issue like this (and it is an issue, if you hadn’t noticed).
As a phone developer, are you current day to day on the librem 14? qualified to jump in and speak as Purism (as any employee does when they use their employee account to adress customers). ?
You could lock this thread too but with nearly 6k views the few voices you heard here , have a large silent or non registered following,following closely, One way or another, having recieved an L15 and ordered the L14 for a total price of 7000 dollars + insane EU import fees and VAT , its no problem for me if i feel that trust is broken or any other reason which i need not justify though i and others have, to in the end refund my 3500 dollars untill i feel trust is regained in a year or two,or not. And if me and a few others are being pushed further in that direction,alot of lurkers are going either “no thanks” or if they have an order,contemplating a refund too.
Not my company,not my circus,not my monkeys and not my problem. But its alarming that you (those of purism that have responded) dont seem to find it worthy of note or alarming with perhaps the exception of Nicole Farber who generally tries to genuinely provide information and answers, now and historically.
Shes the closest thing you have to a PR manager,
Kyle (no offense meant or intended) closing the other thread and saying “I dont know anything about this,im not really involved but hardware and soldering is interesting so learn about it well that answers all questions,topic closed and i quote ; lets move on.”
What in the actual ccmpany conduct is going on? I would not accept half of this from ANY company, again,money dont grow on trees and if you message is multiple and obfuscated and questions and concerns swept under the rug then you are not worth your price tag.
And again,im saying it,others have said it,so a lot more are thinking it.
You essentially had a foul up, turned it into a PR disaster and now youre compounding interest,
I am fast loosing the ability to remain civil so i will leave it at this for now,
I eagerly await more of the same…
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You would ‘never’ see it - because the odds that you are a customer receiving one of the first 1000 units are tiny.
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I don’t know if I believe that. I think company’s like Dell know how damaging errors like this are for brand trust. Companies like Lenovo and the Thinkpad line, for example, are specifically built off of that relationship.
Dell has scale, and that gives them leverage. I do not believe they would risk damaging their reputation simply to save some on the first 1k in laptops. Instead they would probably have them reworked and labeled refurbished. Trust is everything.
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Whether there’s a defect in the first batch or 1000th really doesn’t matter. I stand by the logic that dell/hp/etc would scrap (or, more likely, as @2disbetter pointed out, refurbish) a bad batch rather than patch it and push it through. At their scale it’s probably cheaper up front as well as longer term (after all, someone will eventually find out about the batch and attempt a class action for the hopes of a settlement).
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Thats a funny meme 
but its probobly lowering the chances of being taken seriously by purism staff who have or may yet respond. Allthough the point is clear so maybe if words don’t make concerns clear, a picture might?
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I guess it’s feeling more and more like their plan is to ignore it now, pretend it’s no big deal, as they feel it is resolved, and that likely, if we continue to push for answers, they’ll close the thread, and tell us how we aren’t contributing anything useful, and just being negative. Seems to be the MO.
But I’ll delete it if it would help, if you think?
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Honestly i agree with you, so i wouldnt delete it, im just still trying to extend a rathered withered and brittle olive branch on the off chance that this time it might be different.
Shutting the thread down at this point would also likely be a 2D chess move from a PR perspective, but its their forum. My money though,and yours,and others… not sure they are in the best positition to be playing so fast and loose with it, as it can be refunded.
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Well the more I have seen over the last 8 months or so since I ordered it, has shown me more and more why Purism has the awful rep it has on so many forums and Linux users in general. Folks like the idea of what they try to do, but hate the way they conduct business, the broken promises, estimates, etc. This latest, especially their response, is feeding more fuel to the fire and hurting them more than maybe they realize?
I’m wishing I’d waiting and ordered when they were shipping regularly, and within 10 days, and no issues. That’s what I have decided to do with the L5, they will get my money when I see hundreds of examples online of folks getting their orders in less than 10 days and no issues. So I’m thinking maybe 2022, or 2023? LOL
Otherwise, their “estimates” are just meaningless noise, which is what most potential customer think of them.
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I was told in an email that my L5 USA probably will ship in June, but I don’t know how realistic that is. (I ordered in in january 2021).
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I think you mean Librem 14?
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I was referring to what bass said about the L5 estimates. When I ordered my L14 it said it should ship may 2021 on the page
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Has anybody here received their Librem? At least those who have ordered it Q1 or Q2 of 2020?