Librem 15/13 v5 features and requests


#21

sure, open-hardware to be more specific!

I think this is the crux of the problem. Most mfg likely don’t understand their product enough to feel comfortable to open their hardware as the liability risks are too high, especially what happened last year with the Samsung phone batteries catching fire.


#22

i heard that a few of them exploded and injured customers. probably the xyz state targets :wink:


#23

180° Opening-Learn from the professionally designed, tried & tested Thinkpad. This is very important, esp. for those coming from Thinkpads.
-A laptop that can be opened to 180° can be positioned closer to the user giving the effect of a larger screen, this would lessen the need to connect to larger monitor and makes for a more mobile workstation.
-A laptop that can be opened to 180° can be positioned flat on the table & will be better for collaboration, this would lessen the need for people to squeeze into the same position to see the screen or lessen the need to connect to a larger display. You would be able to discuss ideas face to face with the person sitting opposite you.

4-Core 7nm AMD Ryzen-AMD cpus are susceptible to a lesser number of hardware security bugs compared to their Intel counterparts something that PureOS & Pureboot cannot solve.
-AMD Ryzen is opening up to open-source boot firmware. (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Coreboot-Zen-Picasso-APU)
-Intel is at least 3 years away from releasing a cpu at this node, that is if their published schedule is to be believed. (Even their 10nm cpu is 3 years late of scheduled release). AMD is launching their 7nm for laptops in about 5-6 months.
-4 Cores please!!! We work on large spreadsheets & other things whilst surfing & listening to something, and running other programs in the background, we are working adults not children or teenagers. All 4 cores running at 1.8 Ghz is more power efficient than just 2 cores running at 3.6 Ghz, and also more performant because there is less cache thrashing & more execution units to be occupied.

Thin Bezels-Thick bezels take up unnecessary space in your bag, and all that material surely adds to the weight; not to mention that it’s not beautiful.

As a proof that Purism is more than capable of doing all this, please look at the simple internals of the Acer Swift 5 15.6” SF515-51T-73TY, it opens to 180°, quad-core i7-8565U, thin bezelled, all at LESS than 1 Kilogram!

I believe in Purism’s mission, please don’t give customers unnecessary reasons not to buy what would’ve been a perfectly sellable laptop that will expand your potential customer base.


#24

that’s an interesting feature, however, isn’t it easier in this day and age to simply have a pocket size projector?


#25

You can’t do projectors in restaurants & cafes & other settings, a 360° opening would’ve actually been better but I’m trying not to ask for too much. Besides a projector is ANOTHER device that you have to carry with you, in this day & age devices are expected to be multifunctional to justify the cost-benefit of carrying them.


#26

Very interesting indeed but I think it’s a bit weird for a 13/15" laptop to transform in a tablet, plus it adds the problem of the shiny screen because you’re gonna want a touchscreen on that kind of devices. For that role I think that the Librem 11 project fits better in this kind of use.

I agree that a Ryzen CPU would be very nice but ATM only Intel’s integrated spyware (aka MEI) can be partially removed.

More like a matter of taste, I like to have thick bezels because I know that I’ll be able to disassemble my whole laptop to repair something without breaking anything or having to heatgun all that glue, plus it might be very dumb but I feel safer with thick bezels because I know that it won’t break for quite some time.


#27

Well, that would be 360°, and it’s not weird, I love my Lenovo Yoga 13 :slight_smile:
But it’s pointless without a touchscreen.


#28

Totally agree with with Caliga, 360° opening & touch screen, Lenovo has such a great product line & at great prices, the only reason I’m bothering with Purism is these manufacturers cannot be trusted, & Lenovo is high on that list – their just remorseless in loading their products with spyware (they’ve been discovered more than once & still keeps on doing it).

Librem 11 tablet vs. Librem 13 convertible – I personally think a Librem 13 convertible is actually more useful, a Librem 11 tablet is just another oversized phone, it will take up about the same area as a Librem 13 convertible with thin bezels (because tablets will need the thicker bezels) just slightly thinner but won’t stand up in you lap.

A Librem 13 convertible is actually not a weird proposition, it’s actually better (just look at the effort Dell is putting into their new XPS 13 2-in-1 laptops with IceLake); for those still in doubt please check out the HP EliteBook x360 1040 G6 – this thing passed MIL-STD-810G test procedures, a testament to it’s durability, so you’d have less reason to fix what is not easily broken.

I believe in Purism’s mission, but for that mission to succeed well into the future (succeed, not just survive, or worst die), Purism will need to attract a larger customer base to fund ever better security & privacy customisations and product & operating system development, you need money for these things. There are more of us who want privacy & security AND at the same time great features & specs than those who simply want the former & just settle for a low-spec restricted feature device. Please don’t force us to buy from System76 (another reason why Purism should step up it’s game) or worse mainstream brands that we cannot trust.


#29

The thing is, in this forum you’ll find dozens of opinions which features are missing and have to be added to make it viable.
Purism says they have steady growth and want to pay development without depending on loans, if possible.
So far, the laptops are only lightly customized OEM models, and yet rather expensive.
I’m sure they will up their game, but they are only about 5 years old. Give em some time to grow, healthily. :sunglasses:


#30

USB-C power cable - Avoid tech-trash!
More than 1 USB-C slot - Obviously when having USB-C power cable in place
Thunderbold - Who’s not working with a docking station?!?
4-Core 7nm AMD Ryzen - Logo!
Dual dimm RAM slots - Definitely!


#31

3:2 or 16:10 aspect ratio - I’m curious why more laptops don’t support this. Recent Macs, the Microsoft Surface line, and others are moving this direction, but there hasn’t been widespread adoption. Might it be a supplier issue? It may be just me, but I don’t see a ton of people in this community consuming large amounts of media (movies, tv shows) on these devices. The audience seems to me more privacy-minded professionals. For these tasks a 3:2 or 16:10 aspect ratio seems to make a lot of sense. I think it’s unfortunate we have designed screens around the aspect ratio of media we consume rather than getting things done. Feel like this would be a nice differentiator for Purism laptops.
USB-C charging - Future proofing

Other than those two things, I’m ready to buy either the 13 or 15 today. Probably the 13 because of the asymmetrical touchpad on the 15. I don’t use the number pads at all, so seems like a waste in my opinion, but realize others may use it quite often. Happy to go with the 13 as a result.


#32

I’m probably not a potential customer of the laptop at the current time - so take with a grain of salt - but photos are important to me and for me that is all 16:9 and consistent with my TVs and external monitors. (So if I make the display squarer -> 16:10 -> 3:2 -> 4:3, I am wasting more and more screen real estate.)

Also, getting too “out there” with different aspect ratios can get annoying with certain applications that assume approximate screen real estate. A good application adjusts automatically or can be configured appropriately but …

Another consideration is if a use case requires display mirroring then it can be easier if the built-in display matches the external monitor (in both aspect ratio and approximate resolution).


#34

Switching to AMD would actually streamline some of the work because AMD Ryzen uses ARM Trustzone, the same thing on ARM-based mobile phone cpus like the ones for NXP.


#35

Avoid tech trash! Yes! An unnecessarily low spec laptop (unnecessary because Purism is charging premium prices, and I would happily pay for more just to get premium specs & features) is not doing the environment a favour because one would have to buy a new device sooner in the future, or worse buy & use 2 laptops when only one would have been sufficient.

Also, at least 2K (2560 x 1600/1440) resolution on the Librem 13 (this would bring it to par with last year’s macbook air).

It would also be even nicer if a quad-core Librem laptop were a tad lighter and at the same time pass MIL-STD 810G tests (like the LG Gram line), that would be a First for Linux laptops, certainly a differentiator! Prove the build of the Librem laptop. PC/laptop life cycle these days are longer (mainly due to the breakdown in Dennard scaling & slowdown Moore’s law) making proven builds more important.


#36

@kieran - As far as I know, 3:2 and 4:3 are far more common aspect ratios for cameras. High end DSLRs and cameras with full-frame sensors tend to be 3:2, micro four thirds, point and shoots, and phone sensors tend to be 4:3. Most of these cameras support an option for 16:9 photos, but generally they do this by cropping (which is just taking the original photo and stripping off the top and bottom to make it 16:9). This seems like a waste.

I agree that consistency between monitors/TV is something to consider, but I’d be happy if more monitors were 3:2 or 16:10 as well. TVs are used far more for consumption vs creation, so I’m fine with those remaining 16:9 or even wider.

If all your photos are 16:9, I’m guessing that’s an aspect ratio you chose on whatever device you’re using to take photos, but guessing the sensor itself is 3:2 or 4:3.

Here’s a stack exchange post that explores this in more detail if interested: https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/46538/why-dont-sensors-have-a-wider-aspect-ratio


#37

Yes I should have made clear that 16:9 photos is by my choice and only applies to the digital camera, not my current phone, which as you say is 4:3.

I guess I am making two points:

  • everyone’s requirements are different
  • going too far out on a limb to something that is not as conveniently compatible with everything else may not be desirable especially for a product that is already in a niche part of the computer market - so there would have to be compelling reasons to change

but there is no absolutely right or wrong answer. You can ask for square (1:1) if you want. :slight_smile:

The Librem 15 is currently UHD 4K (i.e. 16:9) and realistically I would expect the v5 to be the same.

If it would make the Librem 15 cheaper, I would be happy with a Full High Definition (1920x1080 i.e. still 16:9) variant, given the relatively modest 15.6" screen.

For desktops particularly, rather than laptops, there is some merit in having a monitor that is capable of displaying an A4 page (ratio sqrt(2):1 i.e. 1.4:1 approx) 1, while still leaving room for “controls”, so 4:3 may not be ideal.

1 except not relevant for some countries in the North American region

Anyways this discussion leads to a digression as to what the aspect ratio is on the two cameras on the forthcoming Librem 5. They are 13Mpx and 8Mpx but I don’t have info for what the actual width x depth is / aspect ratio.


#38

Most of the display resolutions on devices in the market come in standard dimensions, and Librem laptops will need to go for those standard dimensions for economies - both hardware pricing & software support. Many of the laptops that feature FHD screens & beyond have the following display resolutions:
1920 x 1080 vs 1920 x 1200;
2560 x 1440 vs 2560 x 1600;
or basically 16:9 vs 16:10.

Whatever your common use case, I think many more people will appreciate the extra pixels that the 16:10 will offer, you basically have everything the 16:9 offers plus more! You could have all your pictures & videos or whatever fully displayed in 16:9 and the extra space occupied by the taskbar.:wink:


#39

Except 16:10 is narrower than 16:9 and I have my taskbar on the side. Comes back to: everyone’s requirements are different.


#40

16:10 is NOT narrower than 16:9, actually quite the opposite – 16:9 Is Narrower Than the 16:10.
1920 x 1080 vs 1920 x 1200;
2560 x 1440 vs 2560 x 1600;
= 16:9 vs 16:10

And it doesn’t really matter if you put your taskbar on the side, whether you choose 16:9 or 16:10 you still have the same number of pixels horizontally, the only actual difference between 16:9 & 16:10 (if you are using widely used laptop screen dimensions available in the market viz. 1920 x 1080, 1920 x 1200; 2560 x 1440, 2560 x 1600) is that with 16:10 you have some extra vertical pixels, 16:10 has ~11.1% more pixels than a 16:9 (based on the above referenced display resolutions).

Not that I feel particularly strongly about this feature (a quad core 7nm APU is far more important), a 16:10 is just a better thing to have (based on the available choices).:blush:


#41

Wish list
i9 processor or a Mobile Ryzen Chip
Min ram max 64 GB
3 user upgradable storage options
minimum 2 USB Type-C ports
minimum 2 USB 3.0 ports
HDMI
Ethernet Ports are still needed
Matte Screen