All the above statements and assumptions are correct.
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As far as I know the batteries are made in China and shipped to the USA; Purism could ship by sea a number batteries to a European 3rd party fulfilment centre and then make deliveries by road. Other companies do it. Perhaps Purism could announce a pre-order with a
target for minimum order quantity, get European pre-orders in advance from customers and place an order in China for EU. If timed right, they could minimise storage costs at a 3rd party fulfilment centre and have the stock come in and go straight out again for deliveries by road with a local courier.
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This is a good day although it would only work for countries nearby accessible by car. In my country they don’t accept lithium batteries on their own and are taken by customs .
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According to DHL international shipping is permitted provided the ‘shipper’ (Purism) follows proper procedures (see below)
Just some of my experience trying to get a 2nd battery:
If there are 250 seats on a plane, there are probably at least 300 Li batteries on board too. Yes, there are policies, but I went through 5 retailers and when asked, there were 3 variations of the “policy” regarding ordering batteries from the US. None were same as Canada’s policy. DHL was worse.
The hoops and hurdles just to get a battery are definitely not worth the hassle. That’s just Canada’s side. The US is just as confused. Too, you must adhere to the shipping company’s policy as well.
For the L5, the ad states:
Battery
4,500mAh
User-Replaceable
in three places on same ad page. There are no caveats regarding shipping outside of US.
From Canada, I had sent my L5 in on a RMA for servicing. The RMA requires the battery be returned as well. I wanted to keep it back and have Puri add another so I’d have a spare. (I can’t go far with my phone due to very hot and short battery charge.) The RMA requires the battery.
Include the battery (do not remove it)
The post office and I had a go-around over it and they finally saw logic, policy, and US policy, procedures, guidelines and requirements and shipped them together plus Canada Posts silliness.
The phone came back with the battery. There was nothing on either label (to/back) about Li shipping regulations to or from Purism US.
Yes, Purism may ship batteries internationally PROVIDED Purism adhere to shippers instructions.
Suggested Read-First for *DHL shipping of Li batteries.
DHL Safety first: Shipping lithium-ion batteries by air…
Generic DHL Guide to shipping batteries & electronics internationally.
DHL How To Ship Batteries Internationally
Those 3 links above should give enough info for anyone to ship to Purism using Purism’s present choice of shipper DHL. (today being Nov. 12 2024 6:02 p.m. UTC)
From what I read, Puisim may ship internationally provided they follow the procedures for DHL or any other shippers policies.
I found FedEx to be the best, and cheapest.
*I chose DHL shipping regulations because in my instance, Purism only used DHL.
IMO, it’s up to Purism which shipper and just ship the way the shipper wants it done. Patterns indicate this will be retorted. Reach your own conclusions by reading what the regulations are and how the shipper wants the L5 Li handled.
~s
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It is unclear whether what you are saying is the same as what the post previous to yours is saying.
The way I read the previous post, “make deliveries by road” means that when Purism fulfills a battery order from its hypothetical European fulfillment centre, Purism makes the decision to avoid any air transport in getting it to the customer, and thereby avoids the restrictions that air transport imposes.
The way I read the previous post, it did not involve your driving to the European fulfillment centre and back, although that could work in some cases.
As you suggest, none of this can work around restrictions imposed by your Customs authorities at the border to your country.
As such, the hypotheticals being discussed may be a step forward even if not a 100% solution.
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I think Puri is taking it from extreme to another. There doesn’t seem to be a need to certify anyone unless they deal with a wide variety of possible hazardous products. The only hazardous part of L5 is the battery.
Unless Puri is taking over “shipping carriers” I don’t see in the regulations how it’s necessary to certify anyone when one just complies with the shipper, who is responsible.
Sounds to me like Purism is doing this the hard way. I shipped a battery via RMA and the only person complaining was the Post office clerk who was years behind on their knowledge of shipping batteries. She said I had to remove the battery. I said I didn’t, and around we went. I won in round 4 and included the battery as required by Purism. Do declarations made. No certifications needed.
Certified! Who is the person that presently holds the certificate to ensure each phone leaving the US is certified safe? I didn’t think so.
JCS “will do tests shipments and if successful…”
The only test needed is the ability of the person shipping to read the instructions for shipping - no certified thinking required.
Wow
~s
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Shipping carriers and customs tend to disagree, and they are the ones Purism must be accountable to. If Purism does not comply, they confiscate the package. There are no refunds, of course, and Purism could additionally be subject to fines or additional administrative action. You may have had different experiences as an individual and, like speaking to a police officer during a traffic stop, sometimes your success is based on the kind of day someone else is having, but Purism has had numerous experiences where these anecdotes have not been applicable.
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Maybe it’s all in how you ask them the question. There are federal rules that dictate what the carrier may do, and what the send needs to do. I read those, for Canada and the US, then for Canada and using DHL, and FedEx. What the heck do they know.
What ever, it’s your store,
~s
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Yes, you’re right.
And they do sell the Librem 5: Librem5 | FLOSS Shop EN
So they must have an arrangement with Purism USA.
I’m pretty sure they would sell a replacement battery for this product (I think this is mandatory in Europe.)
And shipping inside EU zone (Shengen/Dublin agreement) is not a problem: no customs.
For those interested in trying this solution, Email: info@floss-shop.de
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Another idea is if anyone from Purism is going to Fosdem in February 2025, they could bring some batteries along. @JCS Do you know if anyone from Purism is attending Fosdem? FOSDEM 2025 - Home
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I don’t think so.
Airline rules: You can’t bring batteries in checked luggage. The Carry-on limit is something like 100Wh.
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Yes you are right, but I didn’t mention flying and I didn’t say anything about checked luggage. The idea does depend if Purism are attending Fosdem, if those staff are already in Europe and have batteries to bring along, or possibilities of getting batteries by ship from China to Belgium for Fosdem. It might well be a non-starter, but thought I’d ask. Interesting to know if Purism plan to be at Fosdem anyway.
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You mean batteries in isolation or batteries inside a device?
That would be 5 batteries then. 
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The Librem 5 battery is likely to conform to a standard form factor. You may find the same shape and size battery that fits from another battery supplier. As long as all of the specifications mesh with your device, there should be no problems.
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Most airlines strongly suggest that devices with Lithium batteries be in your carry-on rather than checked luggage. Some US airlines won’t let you keep your laptop in your checked luggage. Others will allow a laptop, but only if it is in “shipping mode” (which is a mode which prevents accidental turning on). In any case, even if it is allowed, most allow only one device/battery. No “spare batteries” are allowed.
Six, I think. People here are used to saying 4500mAh … and for Lithium Ion cells they use the assumption of 3.7V which gives 16.65Wh. So … technically 6 … since 6 * 16.65 = 99.9 . However, sometimes the TSA uses 25,000mAh rather than 27,000mAh (for 100Wh) so 5 might be safer.
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The battery itself says “17.1 Wh” (and 3.8V).
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I did a long research in to this several times. I don’t know where you got your “Shipping carriers and customs tend to disagree” from, but your source, if any, is wrong.
I’m sure if you package the battery, on it’s own, the way your State and destination require it, you won’t need a hazmat suit to do it.
One just needs to be able to read instructions.
Again, it depends how You ask shippers/carriers and customs about shipping batteries.
One of the selling features that had me buy the L5 was the ability to purchase and easily install a battery. Turns out, that was just more Carny Barking.
I just grabbed a old flip phone from junk box. It was released in “Release Date, May 2011”. User removes cover easier than L5, removes old battery and inserts new battery. I may order the battery from US and they will ship it to Canada. It’s not a new thing.
Purism should let potential customers know that a battery replacement for Puri out-of-country is not durable by Purism.
The part you say Pursim is responsible to certifying people to handle batteries must be a opinion, not a fact.
Purism must already know the battery specs such as Wh rating, Lithium weight etcetera. Too, specifying the package is for ‘Ground Shipping Only’ will make a big difference in whittling down the extra for air regulations.
I had the opportunity to get a spare battery when the phone went back to Puri but the requirement that the battery be sent back inside (no good reason why) cancelled the idea of putting a new one in.
The ads are correct. The battery is replaceable. But just try and get a L5 battery outside the U.S.
FedEx, DHL, UPS, Purolator, all have sections on their web sites listing instructions on how to package the battery to be shipped. All the sender needs is the ability to read and follow instructions.
One may pick up the proper packaging and labels from any of the carriers.
It is doable. The process just needs a little organizing and homework done to implement it.
Side but close situation:
If I walked up to your store front, and asked to buy 10 batteries They’d be handed to me inside the store and I walk them out. Will Purism sell them to me?
~s
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From my experience premium carriers such as DHL, UPS etc do send the battery on its own. National post office wont do that or accept it when it arrives the country. However whenever i ordered a couple of used smartphones with the removable battery included inside , i had no issues receiving it. So my guess is that they scan it through the xray and if they see it looks like a phone then it goes through . So worst case scenario to buy a used librem 5 instead of buying a new one. Not sure how good the battery will be though
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The Librem 5 battery is likely to conform to a standard form factor.
It’s a custom enclosure designed by Purism, see the battery’s CAD files.
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