Librem 5 Shipping Batches


#62

I’m surprised at the people complaining about Aspen. If it’s essentially the phone in the pictures from the Mastodon announcement, and the overheating issue is fixable with software updates, I’d be overjoyed to get one of those.


#63

I’m a little confused by the different batches shipping in different months. Is a “later” batch a more complete product than and earlier batch? Is an earlier batch phone going to be just as good as a later batch with just software upgrades as time progresses? Is the phone going to come assembled?


#64

I have ordered on October 2017, and I hope to have at worst Chestnut or Dogwood and beyond but not before. In any case, I hope that those who have the batches before Evergreen will receive special attention/privilege from Purism. Except in a case of volunteering, I think that a customer should benefit from the best quality (the final product from the qualified production line) and not from a product made in a protoshop.

When I read “Can I buy a better case later”, I find that abnormal. To buy or to replace free of charge ?

Pre-series beneficiaries should be able to be upgraded if they request it, as they have given the same amount as those who obtain the finished product, while having taken more risks at the start of the project, participating to the group effect that encouraged other backers to fund the project.


#65

SteveC: When did you buy your phone? It would possibly help others to know when they will receive their devices.


#66

Sorry! Excuse me. I think I confused you with a troll! Next time I’ll ask before shooting, I promise.
About the “unfinished” business, that word was used to describe the “switch caps (hand crafted).”, no the device itself. I assume (if I could) we may ask for replacement later, I would pay for those if I had to, the same for a better protecting case.
I insist: this is a project in development and we should be asking how Purism expect us to help. I hope I receive instructions in that sense so I could help.


#67

Nah. Most likely, everybody before Evergreen only paid $599.
Also, as you can choose to wait for a later batch, how can you still demand a free case upgrade?
“I paid less, I get it earlier, I demand a free case upgrade with free worldwide shipping on top”
Seriously?


#68

In the mean while… I was gone for few hours, since nothing was happening… And come back to this… :roll_eyes:

Some seem unhappy, because there wasn’t a pre-pre-announcement to this pre-annoncement to give partial info about the info that will and would have been given in full later on when they’d have enough time to work on it. But it seems Purism was feeling pressured to announce now what they had on that. Yes, maybe a more nuanced communications plan could have been used.

Sure, it would have been nice to have a contemplative blog post last spring about this possibility of shipments in waves and, sure it would have been nice have even more info. I’m pretty sure those were not and have not been decided yet. I think they are on plan C with this and previously only had A and B, so couldn’t. It’s often said there needs to be plans C through F too, but that’s not realistic when doing new stuff.

This seems not to be what many were expecting. Was the expectation that all would be shipped at the same time and fully ready? Well that’s unfortunate. The only thing I could read was, that some of the early ones may have some unpolished minor details, but they work and every group of trees can be updated to same standard. Some less than perfect wording aside, isn’t this so?

Beyond that, what seems to be troubling some, is the question of time vs. possible future potential and investment. If one takes one “too early”, will they miss out on something that the later batches have? Such horror! What will that be? Or will they invest time as payment for possible future improvements and is that worth it? Interesting conundrum at this point and fuel for much speculation.

Based on the info we have, I think the only benefit will be in the eyes of the individual and how they persieve it. With tech, there will always be something more, something newer. The model v1 can’t be very much different in A through E or there would be much louder griping and other bad things (for Purism). If early models have problems, they can be replaced anyway, so I doubt Aspen for instance would be any serious risk (although, in essence, you’d be a beta-tester). Possibly the improved mechanics/case could be offered or sold to the ABCs later - this info would even the perception of A-E much. Software will upgrade and mature to same level with all - everyone will get LTE (or install what they want) eventually.

These might have been points to emphasize more. Unless, of course, Purism plans to skimp and intentionally plans to leave the early backers with sub-bar phones. I doubt that - no evidence of it. The V2 is another thing entirely and will affect the conundrum of waiting vs. having. Announcing it with V1 delivery was in my mind a big mistake - in the vein of killing off Symbian too early. 1. I don’t want to know you are possibly putting your effort to something new while this is still unfinished, and 2. there better be good explanation on why everyone should stay on V1 instead of waiting for V2 (besides time and such). It’s nice to know there is something new planned (and that was already surmised here also that eventually there would be), but wrong time bring that up and odd to mix it to the original delivery info. Should be considered a separate and none existent product at this point.

I know I often write long ramblings. Trying to summarize myself… We have more info coming, as this was only a pre-info, and the burning question (and possible new T-shirt slogan) of “which tree am I:evergreen_tree::deciduous_tree::palm_tree: will produce much of the writing here in the coming few weeks. Tiers will have some variation but [and I hope this is expressly and unequivocally confirmed] all will reach same level and any problems will be dealt with should they rise. Communication is hard and managing everyone’s differing expectations is hard - not many absolutely perfect examples - and nice try, keep up the work. It’s unfortunate that the big difficult complex project that is done against industry grain hasn’t gone the way it was imagined, but it’s still coming along and doesn’t look bad at all.

Anyone should always communicate more, I suppose. Easy to say. This kind of confusion is normal after any info dump as there is misreadings and unanswered questions. But it will sort itself out as more comes available. We will get more info - just not tonight or this weekend. I still suggest taking on that thick book to read in the meanwhile and not letting the wait drive anyone crazy. On the other hand, I thought of the crazy idea that a couple of the Purism folk could come to the forum to have a Q&A marathon - as separate of the announcements - at some point, if the servers can handle it.


#69

A picture is worth a thousand words…


Do you have any idea how much that jersey is worth? (hint: a lot)

Howwwwever…they are based in the the same state that makes See’s chocolate and can get it fresh…just kidding :slight_smile:


#70

The phone will come preassembled, but I’m going to immediately disassemble it, because it is not fun to have a new toy without seeing what’s inside :wink:

According to the announcement, the fit and finish will improve over time, but you are getting the same hardware in Aspen through Evergreen. Only Fir in Q4 2020 will have different hardware. It sounds like Aspen and Birch will be more like prototypes, and they will only get to the finished version of the hardware kill switches in Chestnut.

I’m speculating here, but it sounds to me like their switches are a special order and it will take time to get them from the manufacturer, or maybe they want to evaluate how well different types of switches work on the Aspen before they commit to a large order of switches.

The second thing is that the i.MX 8M mini is 14nm, but it has a low-powered GPU and VPU, so I really doubt that it is what is planned for the Fir batch in Q4 2020. It must mean that NXP has told Purism that it will be producing a 14nm version of the i.MX 8M Quad.

I wonder if anyone will decide to sell their early Aspen version on ebay? How much will it go for? I bet there are people who are willing to pay $1000 just to get the phone early. Besides a prototype is a collector’s item.


#71

I didn’t paid less. I paid the price for people who have be convinced to finance this project, this is different. It means, I have participated to pay R&D, prototypes and machine means. It is my opinion that I do not impose on anyone, of course. I respect people who want those batches, it is not a problem. Purism wants to get return of investment from prototypes, and on the other side, there are some customers wanting to get the first versions of this product so I have nothing to interfere about that, it’s an agreement.

From my experience in quality in the industry, I think the quality of protos before Evergreen can be fluctuating. Evergreen seems to be the production batch coming out from the final production line, therefore the finished product, with a reproducible quality (what is called Quality Assurance). Fir is what we can call Continuous Improvement based on the feedback from the 1 version of the Librem 5.

When I paid $599, I thought I was going to get the finished product with a promotion because I was supporting the project first and had the privilege of the price. I didn’t think I would perhaps have a proto version, with a machined case (aesthetic feeling), dimensions that may not be respected (even half mm can be humidity or mechanical risks), switches without caps, etc. This is why I said Purism shall take care about the customers who have the earlier version of this product and make a commercial gesture in case of design problems.


#72

The people who paid less have also been without that money much longer than the people who ordered recently, though. If it were a loan it would have accrued more interest than the recent preorders, and if we were investors we would expect to see a larger return for the same investment if it were made earlier.

I personally have no problem paying for a revised-design case, but I do think it would be good PR for Purism, at relatively little cost, to offer free case upgrades to recipients of early batches. At the very least they could just have customers pay for shipping.


#73

I know I’m in the last batch.


#74

I don’t think that there will be an Osborne Effect to announcing v2 now. Most people who ordered the Librem 5 aren’t too worried about having a slightly better processor. Realistically, you are getting 10%-15% better performance and better battery life, which for most people isn’t worth waiting a year. Maybe 5% will decide that they prefer to wait for v2, but those people will keep their orders in place so they are first in line for v2, so Purism doesn’t lose money.

By announcing v2 early, Purism creates a lot of good will, because nobody will be angry that they didn’t know that a better version was right around the corner. Now if Purism had announced 8GB of RAM and 64GB of storage as well in v2, then you might have more of an Osborne Effect.


#75

Hasn’t anybody considered those early batch recipients may be getting a collector’s item? Lot’s of cool objects throughout history appreciated ludicrously in value over time. The more rare your device is, the better the chances of it appreciating in value over time.


#76

Plus, the Librem 5v2 is still over a year out. Maybe there are some backers who would wait more than a year beyond when they expected to get a (slightly) better phone, but I’d venture to guess they’re in the minority.


#77

I’m a bit jealous of the early backers. I think the ones with hand-crafted parts are getting something special. Rather than being a negative, it’s a plus. It’s a bonus. I just wish I’d found the project earlier.

I am betting anyone unsatisfied with the early batches will find eager buyers for the phones.


#78

Well, the question is: Can a v1 be upgraded to a v2 by swapping the processor?


#79

No. It’s soldered in the board and v2 is smaller in size.


#80

I’m not convinced that it wouldn’t make more sense to upgrade the v2 more (mem and storage and maybe another feature) than just upgrade pcb. But even with that, I think it’s premature because access to v1 now is Q2 or Q3 next year and V2 is just after that. By which time expected requirements have gone up and it’s easy to add more of those two (as prices have gone down a bit also). It just doesn’t make sense not to upgrade it.


#81

So from Chestnut to Evergreen the hardware part just says: “All hardware included”. Does that mean that the only differences between Chestnut, Dogwood, and Evergreen will be the software, the case and the certifications? Does it mean that those 3 revisions will have the exact same board?

Also, will it be possible to switch the case of any of those 3 revisions to another case from the evergreen later on, and will the evergreen case be sold separately?