I couldn’t agree more. Pine64 is somehow managing to what purism is failing to do and now that they’re releasing a new board for their pinephones that makes the specs competitive to an L5 for only 80 bucks (if you’re a BH or UBPorts backer) people are going to start running towards that in droves. a privacy respecting phone doesn’t do you any good if it doesn’t ship.
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So without going back to previous posts, is Evergreen now 100% not being shipped in November?
Given that the month is about half way over, and they’re still failing to even send the email my guess is this will be the case. I wouldn’t be surprised if they ship a token number of devices for appearances but people who have backed the project as far back as '17 have no idea when they’re getting theirs which is disgraceful.
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How can this be going on? Any reasons?
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purism never talks about their business, though ex-employees have done write ups explaining their business is a disaster behind the scenes which makes sense given what we’ve seen publically.
You consistently see from within this community and without. Over Promising, Under-delivering, all while communicating poorly.
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My positive order history says their business is rock solid.
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weird cause article after article comes out detailing return rates, internal morale, and leadership at purism not being great. so who’s the liar, you or the people doing detailed write ups (like the one I posted Previously)?
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About development of free software:
I care. The development of free software for smartphones is important.
Even if shipping of Librem 5 hardware is delayed even more, the software is already there for everyone to use, and it gets better all the time. If you buy and use a Pinephone today, most likely you will be using Phosh, developed by Purism. At least that seems to be what most Pinephone users are doing.
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All I know, that I’ve ordered 5 things from them, and 4 of those were delivered on time. L5 did not, but given the other items, I’m sure it will find its way to me.
Also, since you are at the low personal attacks level now, you @ozpi, are an unscrupulous FUD spreader and need to go calling your mom a liar.
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I was really keen to hear from people who had received their email, so thank you for letting us know. I hope all goes well. I can’t wait to see the final phone get out into the wild! 
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Yeah, no problem. We wanted to get a few more of the phone accessories in the store before the first email went out, so those backers would have a chance to get accessories in the same shipment instead of two shipments, so that delayed things for a few days.
Now we are off to the races. Once we get a few weeks of shipping behind us we’ll be able to gauge our output with our expanded team and make more accurate predictions for people. Output from the previous small batch phones unfortunately isn’t a good indicator of our output at scale.
I’m guessing it will take 4-6 weeks to for things to stabilize into a steady rate of shipping such that we can then have the missing piece to the formula of when a particular backer will get their phone. Until that point it’s just a bad guessing game with incomplete information, that would lead us to estimate far too conservatively.
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I find the criticism in this thread odd. We have been asked to provide more information, more frequently, even when it’s incomplete, so we went to extra lengths to write up a shipping FAQ to explain what we know and more importantly, what we don’t yet know and why we don’t know it. We assumed, rightly, that once we start shipping people will want to know when theirs will arrive, so we wanted to explain the missing pieces of that equation that make it hard to calculate shipping beyond the very first set of orders. We also explained when we thought we would have that information.
On one hand I keep hearing from the community that “more information is better, we are adults, we can take it” and on the other hand each time we give more information, which by its nature ends up always being somewhat incomplete and imperfect, we get criticized for any questions left unanswered.
We know our throughput when it comes to laptops, as we have prepared, tested, and shipped laptops en masse for years now. This is the first time we will be preparing, testing, and shipping the Librem 5 en masse, instead of in small batches, and while we have expanded the team in preparation for this, until we actually start shipping phones out, we simply have no way to predict the weekly output in any way that would be useful to predict when a particular person would get their order.
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I received my shipping email this morning, asking to confirm address and add the order number of any purchased extra accessories from the Store.
I estimate that I was somewhere in the low 300s in the original crowdfunding campaign (based on comparison of my order confirmation date/time stamp and the archived web page for that date). I had also delayed from Chestnut to Evergreen when given the option.
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Were you asked about modem choice?
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Don’t let the trolls get to you. You could wave a magic wand and put a Librem 5 in everyone’s hand right now and they would still find things to complain about.
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Yes. There are 2 modems available in the store at the moment, both Broadmobi. I’m in the US, so I want the US version.
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First of all thank you for you 2 posts. Especially the frist one clearing things up why shipping email (that most of us do not have to wait for) delayed. And also thank you for your thoughts and your view in your second post.
As being one of those critics you mentioned, let me please add my view.
As written in another post of mine a lot of people were expecting that “start of shipping” means a huge batch of phones is shipped out within short time, because you well prepared for that. So did I. And therefore Evergreen as a whole batch (I do not know how many pre-orders you have on hand) will be send out. Adding the fact, that you (not in person but your company) somehow gambled your credibility with constant delays communicated in an (for most of us) improvable way w.r.t. point of time and content, this again feels very uncomfortable and like some kind of lie. Because you said “shipping starts in November”. But MY shipping does not. And I do not get informed when this will be the case.
Personally, when I ordered I expected a shipment within 4 months from the point of time I ordered. At least that was the advertised information at that time. Now I am waiting for almost 23 months still not knowing when to get delivered. And I think this is the least thing to be provided as a financier of this campaign: A more or less reliable information, when to get delivered. And I do not understand why it should not be possible to provide information like:
- If you ordered between Feb 18 and April 18 your estimated delivery is CW5-7 2021
- If you ordered between May 18 and Jul 18 your extimated delivery is CW8-10 2021
And what I do get delivered is not that was promised. A usable phone out of the box. 14 hrs idle, non-working smart card reader, base apps (e.g. calendar) not finished, Matrix not usable, constant hints to developer tweaks to get things running is not what I personally consider a usable phone by Todd’s daughters / non-developers out of the box according to specs you still advertise on your site.
This overall package of delays, improvable communication, changed refund policy and delivery vs. expectation / advertisement makes me of course feel disappointed.
Sorry for extensive writing. I decided to do this public and not via E-Mail, since some of us including me started this discussion all together and you reacted on that. So I wanted to have my thoughts public as well.
Nonetheless, go straight ahead and finish what you were working on so hard. After this marathon run you can now see the stadium to run the final round.
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This calculation can be reduced to a pretty simple formula:
orders_ahead_of_you / average_weekly_shipping_throughput = number_of_weeks_until_yours_ships
We know orders_ahead_of_you. For reasons we explained in the Shipping post, and that I elaborated on here, we do not and can not yet know average_weekly_shipping_throughput.
Can we make wild and inaccurate guesses? Sure, but we are guaranteed to be wrong, which guarantees basically everyone will be disappointed, either because we erred on the side of being very conservative, therefore people think they will get their phone later than they actually will, or we erred on the side of being too optimistic, which then means people think their phone will arrive sooner than it actually will.
Given some of the criticisms you bring up around delays, we are incredibly sensitive right now about avoiding giving inaccurate shipping information to people, but once we know average_weekly_shipping_throughput (which we think will take 4-6 weeks) then we can complete the above equation and give people reasonably accurate estimates, if they haven’t already received their phone in the mean time.
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Yeah Kyle don’t let the self righteous fanboy trolls get to you either. People will always complain , thats what they do in an imperfect world full of imperfect people. If customers/backers/etc complain about a product /service thats okay. I pray to win Powerball and don’t win but I am determined to get my L5 asap and complain about imperfections. And loving every minute of it. You took on an almost impossible task and are going to deliver despite well meaning customer/backer trolls finding ways to vent while waiting anxiously for the arrival of the magic L5. I’m just a little testy right now in anticipation of my shipping email. Don’t poke the dog if you don’t want a response (not you Kyle)
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