Librem desktop idea


#8

I’m glad I’m not the only one lusting. The company is Linux friendly and has some sort of collaboration going with Linux Mint. Maybe some kind of Purism/Compulab partnership could be possible too? Compulab does the fanless hardware and Purism takes care of the firmware/BIOS?


#9

i have a lot of mobos here, yes, we need hurry that bios free stuff in desktops… if possibly, ty… i use at home, 3 desktops n in a lab 15,


#10

Is it me or is it getting hot in here? Looks like we’re all lusting for that desktop. Good to know! A small form factor with plenty of ports, black aluminum just like the laptop, good CPU power, and running on your favorite distro. Yeah, I definitely feel like a slut now!


#11

i’m happy that people have interest on it, but i’d like to make under you attention, that any kind of x86 is not secure even with libreboot

i suggest you to watch this

long story short, x86 have a lot of hidden instructions, that even manufacturer company don’t know what are they used for, and if you place those instruction there is a reason, or x86 engeneer have drugs problem, but i don’t think that’s a drugs case :smile:

we need a completly open alternative like power9 or risc-v i don’t know the complete statement/availability of powerful/open enough arm and considering risc-v not ready yet the only option is power9

there is another company who sell this, but i onestly prefer to support purism, because they are a social purpose company and i like how they do what they do, and honestly i also hope they could offer it to a better price than the other company do

considering people could buy it worlwide, but taxes, shipment and customs will highly grow the costs for end user, and some of us will cannot afford this expense, i really suggest purism to make a power 9 motherboard and cpu and give the options to buy just them w/o have to buy a complete system, so users could buy other components in their country dropping the shipment and customs costs
i think a 5-600$ for a cpu and motherboard combo could be a good compromise for people and purism

i know from a previews statment that purism do not like to sell spare parts, but i hope they could change their mind to help people and communities to reach a truly free affordable pc, this also allow us to have more freedom to buy the components we prefear, as social purpose company i think this should be evalued, purism is not apple and shoudn’t.
while with a laptop this is not possible for obvious reasons, with a desktop pc, they can do it, and i hope they will.


#12

Just in case you may not know? PURISM is thinking about building a router, Nas, and desktop. What I don’t know is the demand? If there isn’t demand why build it. I do know is I’d like all three. Yes, preferably with an open CPU to avoid x86 problems. You know, I sit back read these articles and watch these computer videos. I can’t help but to think the whole system is just rigged! Nothing but one giant CON job. That’s why they have that ALL SEEING EYE in back of the one dollar bill. Aligned beliefs. Yes. Slowly but surely we will build are wall of privacy.


#13

I sort of agree with you, except for the eye. No serious gangster tattoos Gangsta on his face. Tattoos and symbols are for amateurs. The Big boys fly under the radar.

Oh, and thanks for the info on Purism’s plans. Do you have a link?


#14

At the end of the day I have to balance the utility of the computer with the security of it. On the one hand we can use an open processor with a different architecture, and have no software that actually runs on it, but hey at least we are secure. On the other we can do what Purism HAS BEEN doing and mitigate as much as we can, while still enabling the use of the wealth of software already out there. I prefer door number 2 infinitely more than 1.

And I’d go as far to say that if the desktop is some new CPU architecture that doesn’t support the wealth of software already out there, I wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole. Furthermore, a computer that attracts no developers is essentially still born. It would be a novelty that few people would be able to effectively use for productivity.


#15

If you are talking about Windows, there is no security. If you talk about some programs, afaik the only issue with power9 is with firefox, i know someone is working on it, the major issue seems to be JIT but tenfourfox developer are working to port in for ppc64le, with this exception, debian do have ppc64le with a lot of package as x86 have, ppc64le is tier 1 for debian, so with the firefox exception i do not see the problem are you talking about


#16

yes but why isn’t power9 just as prone to the concerns you have for x86? Are you sure that a power9 would even fix the problem?


#17

because it’s a completly open architecture, there is no blob or closed firmware


#18

Awesome. Doesn’t change anything for me. Windows being secure or not doesn’t factor in to the amount of software available on it. Or that I need to run it through a VM. There are many advantages to running a VM on hardware compatible with the guest OS.

I’m saying simply that a computer that appeals to the most paranoid simply wont be able to gain the kind of footing it would need to push the Purism beliefs out there for greater adoption.

Now I’d love to be wrong, and find that there is a layer written or whatever that makes all of my concerns moot. I just don’t see that ever happening.


#19

i use a different approach, in my opinion we can have the best secure and the best usability

i.e.
powerpc with linux for almost anything we can do with linux on x86, if i need windows, ofc using a virtual machine could just emulate another architecture is not the best solution, so i just use another x86 pc
let’s say al my documents, personal data, internet browsing on my secure powerpc, and games, photoshop, autocad or whatelse on my other x86 pc

so i can have the best security i need when i need it, and also the usability

ofc nothing is perfect, have everything with one pc should be the best things, but we can’t have anything (yet) i think for librem5 is the same, if you need whatsapp or other android/ios apps you can’t use it with librem5, you still need another smartphone.
in my opinion we are in a kind of transition era, but transition happen just when visionary company and conscious people make it happen, here i see the right company with the right people who care about it.
i remember when people on different community wrote that librem5 will never reach the $$ goal, and here we are, they where wrong, because purism care about open software and hardware, and because there are a lot of people who want it.

i think everyone here have an x86 pc, have a “librem power x” will give us a complete freedom with all the software, firmware and hardware stack, and when we need i.e. windows, we could just install it on the x86 pc we already have


#20

I’d also like them to complete their portfolio, especially with a NAS type of thing

@Sascha
On roadmap see here: What if Todd Weaver were CEO for one year :wink:
On NAS, see here: Purism partners with nextcloud
On alternatives, see here: Libretrend

On a differenct architecture: Todd Weaver signaled in an interview that they are open to explore new architectures. And software is really not the key problem here, @2disbetter. With a Debian base of about 70,000 packages that can be compiled on many architectures, that should not be a concern.

The main concerns are

  • getting all that new stuff to work (find components and somebody to manufacture it, like currently with the Librem 5)
  • having enough market share for such an “experiment” to succeed
  • performance

The latter two are, IMO, the reason why we didn’t see that yet from Purism. They started with Laptops to even grow big enough to dare to make a phone. And they’ll add a new architecture when they think time has come.
And I say add because clearly it should/can not replace Intel anytime soon. x86 laptops will be the cash cow that funds all other undertakings for the foreseeable future.

Less performance is okay for many purposes, but just look around in the forums here how some people whine that the Librems are not bleeding edge enough… And getting similar performance (CPU/GPU) with a completely open architecture is really not an easy task. This chase can well take a decade.

Also, keep in mind there’s still enough to do while sticking with Intel. First, freeing Intel it even more.
Second, make deblobbed bluethooth available, third, improve wireless performance of the free driver. Those last issues don’t go away from switching architecture, it just means they’ll be resolved even later.


#21

II don’t want to push them in a risky road, they know their balance and know how do some things cost.
Of course is everytime a point of view, someone feel to be free just using linux, someone else looking for something more like coreboot and someone else, like me, think every god mode components like cpu mobo and firmware must be open.

Me like everyone just write their input, there are other companies like raptorcs who already have their business selling power machines, so if they make money with that i think purism could do it too.

I’m not there to push purism for my convenience, because what i want is there and i can buy it. I’m there because i prefear to give my money to a social purpose company who make an entire line to improve my privacy and freedom, and i also think more players on a kind of product mean better products and better prices.

Then as a guy who discovered linux some years ago and thinking now i’m completly open, then discovered closed firmware closed bios closed arch and so on, is important to let this know to other people who is making my same journey, that there is not just an os or a bios but something more that make linux and libreboot useless considering backdoors on lower ring


#22

In general yes. But several FOSS startups competing for the same customers can also slow everything down. We’re not paying a premium to Purism because they ride fancy cars, but because they invest a lot in research & development and they manufacture low volume. Prices will go (and have gone) down with rising market share, so quite the opposite to Apple, where iPhone prices (first was $499) only know one direction, despite the competition. So, the equation is not always that simple.


#23

Here’s the competition you’ve been asking for :wink: At least if you’re US based.
https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/system76-announces-american-made-desktop-pc-open-source-parts


#24

Just a quick glance, but that looks great!

I wonder what Mainboard they are using, particularly in the large model. Would be very disappointed if it was an asus board like I already have.


#25

Unfortunatly this is not open hardware, that’s just another x86 with UEFI.
Nothing different from a Mac, Dell or something else, that’s just marketing, that make me think they are not a serious company.


#26

I wouldn’t go that far. Still they make machines dedicated to Linux. They just don’t have the same philosophy as Purism, which I’d say is good because that diversity leaves more wiggle room for Purism to grow. So, they are slightly better on the open hardware side, Purism is better on the open firmware side. And hopefully, one day in the future, we have at least one company that reaches the Purism Purist Standard.


#27

I can buy al most every desktop at 1/3 of their prices, install linux, and have the same level of open hardware they are offering.
Imho on open hardware side, there is no difference from purism and system76.
I say they are not serious in my opinion, because they made a kind of cartoon trailer sponsoring “the first open hardware” while this is not true, because i see really nothing open more than what everyone already have.

Open Hardware system is a stack of completly open cpu architecture (x86 is closed) open motherboard (what they are offering is not open) open firmware (they don’t even use coreboot, while purism does), so what’s open there? an useless daugher board?
Just imagine a tribune where the man on the higher spot can watch and see everything about people are on bottom sides, cpu, motherboard and their firmware are on top of everything, so an open daughterboard that sits on the bottom spot, is completly useless, just because all the closed stuff can watch, manage and do everything they want to this data.

The only trustworthy and open hardware pc is the one who is completly open. Stop.

I’m fine if some company do have other purposes, but it’s not correct to say “open hardware” while this is not even close to the truth, this attitude will hurt serious company like purism and raptorcs, that are working on this directions, people who wanna buy system76 pc because they like it, i’m happy for them, but if someone give them their money because they think it’s open hardware, it’s a damage for more serious companies, and i really don’t like it, because with this money serious company could do important things for communities, while wrong attitude just do important things for their income.