Do I understand you right:
- Device 1 = Librem 5
- Device 3 = Nexdock360
- Device 2 = very powerful charger
Video/usb-data gets routed through the “magic device” between Device 1(L5) and Device 3(N360) and both devices draw power from Device 2(very powerful charger).
The “magic device” in the middle talks to “very powerful charger” using PD to get the power specs and tell the charger what it needs and each of the devices N360 and L5 talk to the “magic device” to tell it how they’d like to be provided their power.
Did you try this and is is known to work?
I looked for such a device (I searched for something like “usb-c power injector pd”) and didn’t find anything.
My actual solution attempt is described above:
Baseus usb-c dock connected to:
- power adaptor (feeding dock and L5)
- usb-c: keyboard/touchpad to N360 port (left near screen)
- hdmi: video to N360
- ethernet: local network
- usb-a: external mouse
N360 draws power through a different usb-c connection from a second power adaptor.
Seems to work for a desktop setup, but the “magic device” would need a lot less cables.
That would be original Librem 5 power supply.
No just Librem 5 would draw power from the connected power supply (although I’m not familiar with N360 at this moment).
Sorry but no. I do not possess N360, but still it would be nice that you try this (for the rest of us to be aware if indeed helped), just thought of mine that this “magic device” might be the one that you need in between this combo (and solve this Librem 5 charging issue).
I’ll try and let you know. Found the “magic device” at a reagional dealer so that’ll be easy to return it if it doesn’t work like expected.
Is it not just a powered USB C hub?
If so it wouldn’t work as expected. It needs to pass through the hdmi signal, also. Furthermore it’d need - as I understood the PD protocol - to intercept the data traffic to deliver meaningful PD information to all connected devices.
Maybe someone with more inside in PD can fill in some knowledge here and correct my simple or even wrong description?
Setup, as I understand above screenshot, for related “magic device” (
Device 3 = Nexdock360) should be the very same as shown here (there exist only one USB-C port on N360 that supports DisplaPort, yet please correct me if I’m wrong):
Second option for the same
Device 3 = Nexdock360 would be USB-C to HDMI Adapter (for example:
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002012736689.html), actually both related ports that you plan to be used with this “magic device” are placed on the left N360 side.
And, as hopefully clear from the screenshot above, only device that would get powered from is Librem 5, getting power from its original power supply as 5V/3A. Charging USB-C port for Nexdock360 is on the right side of this device and I have no clue which voltage/power it consumes, as those numbers probably quite irrelevant here, IMO.
Sorry for this late reply! EDIT:
Baseus GN16A dock USB Type-C female port (entrance port for 5V/3A or feeding port) you can still connect to the bottom right side USB-C data port of the N360 and continue using it with the rest of there connected devices (minus Librem 5).
Short: Does not work as hoped for.
The device is a more or less simple switch:
Device1 is either connected to Device2 or to Device3. If the button in the middle is pushed the connection from Device1 alternates between Device2 and Device3.
Furthermore: “not magic device” does not work if there is no power connected to an additional micro-usb port.
Will send it back.
Edit: This leaves the position open to fill in a real cool hacker device. We are missing an “usb-c pd power injector”
Yes, I’m noticing this now, tricky but mentioned in description. The best way to power this “non magic device” would be through DC5V to microUSB plug, as quite sure that it is otherwise useless (according to some review). Therefore adapter from DC power input needed, 3.5×1.35mm or 5.5×2.1mm:
And this USB to DC5V power cable is quite compact:
I finally got my L5 so I can dock successfully and have a few suggestions that might be helpful. First I gave a hub with good reviews a try and luckily everything works. It’s a Mokin 9in1 MOUC0505B. Got on -g m-a-zon for a moderate price. The HDMI cable works, my wired usb keyboard, mouse and storage devices work and it powers and charges via the included purism usb-c power plug. The wired RJ45 works to but the L5 sees it as a USB ethernet…for a heads-up
So all good. The biggest problem was the temperature on the L5 would rise from ~35C to 55C in about 15 minutes. Not good. So I followed Kyle’s advice to have the battery charged to +90% or so. It did slow down the heat rise but after about 30 minutes it was the same thing. It was approaching 55C again.
So I did Kyle’s next advice. I had a small (4") D-cell fan that I aimed at the aluminum edge of the L5. Even with the fan at slow speed and nearly noiseless it kept the temerature at right about 40C give or take and this was with the battery starting at a charge of about 35%
The other advice is if I disconnect the power to the hub from the purism usb-c charger, at some point all the power just starts getting sucked out of the L5 battery and the heat rises real fast. I’m guessing at that point the L5 battery is powering not only the mouse and keyboard but also the monitor. Since the monitor is plugged in to the wall it seems unfortunate but that’s the only explanation I have for the battery going from 40% to 10% in about a minute and a half. At that point of course it’s a mad scramble to undock the L5 and recharge it.
So having a dock that works and keeping the L5 cool enough have me on convergence. Now I’m figuring that out to hopefully get it as a real alternative to a dedicated desktop.
Not powering the monitor, but certainly everything else. Your little collection of devices there sounds like a lot for a tiny phone battery.
Well, it’s only a mouse and keyboard and the only reason I took the A/C power off is to experiment with the L5s heat rise and just to see what happens. I certainly wasn’t thinking the L5 battery would power everything adequately. I wouln’t have imagined the mouse and keyboard to drain the L5 battery that fast however, thus my questioning the monitor while hooked up to hub via the HDMI cable. And the same observation with battery drain was observed wthout the RJ45 or any usb storage devices plugged in.
Is that a little more clear? Maybe my observations with be helpful to someone.
I have a MNT Reform. It uses the same SBC as the Librem 5. Granted it powers a much larger screen, but with the screen off, and the system powered on, I’m seeing about 5.5 watts getting pulled. Since the Nextdock can only supply 5 watts, this is why it is not charging.
If the nextdock can only provide 1 amp at 5 volts it simply cannot provide enough juice to power the phone, display, and charge the battery.
On the MNT under heavy load, the system has pulled easily 7-8 watts. This would strain the power supply even more.
All this to say that the nextdock cannot charge your L5.
Yeah, I read your list of things that work as things you were using at the time.
Maximum Continuous Discharge Current – The maximum current at which the battery can be discharged continuously. This limit is usually defined by the battery manufacturer in order to prevent excessive discharge rates that would damage the battery or reduce its capacity. This term is taken from here: http://mit.edu/evt/summary_battery_specifications.pdf, so please do not experiment like this every day, especially if only one Librem 5 battery available. Other overheated parts of your Linux phone might be easily damaged as well.
And in short, out there exist simple 18650 battery cells that can be drawn down with max. continuous discharge rate of 25A (max. pulse discharge: 70A) without significant damage to them (even achieving ordinary life expectancy), but Librem 5 battery is not the one for such purposes, not one of them (vaping devices use those, but not smartphones). Therefore max. continuous discharge rate of 1.0A or even 2.0A should not cause such overheating issues over there (in total, for example I’ve just ordered microSD card that consumes for read/write: 160mA, which also means preferably without some external “extremely” power hungry device, certainly not for prolonged time), just my guess, but still recommending you not to accelerate unnecessary Amperage numbers (not even for testing purposes).
Found my desktop #convergence setup for my #Librem5.
Problem had been that the L5 did discharge while connected to the #Nexdock360, because the N360 only delivers around 5W of power to the connected device.
This is fine if both devices are used on battery and discharge this way.
But I wanted to be able to use the L5 while charging.
Yeah, one point on my todo list for Librem5 using done
Edit: Forgot the pictures alt text:
The Librem5 is attached to the right side of the screen of the Nexdock360 using a magnetic holder.
It connects via a 90° usb-c adapter to a Baseus usb-c dock. The usb-c dock draws power from the original L5 power adaptor and delivers enough to charge the L5 while using it.
To the docks usb hub are an usb wireless mouse connected and the usb port of the N360 for keyboard and touchpad data. Touchscreen does not work this way.
The Baseus dock comes with an built-in ethernet adapter which works fine.
The Nexdock360 draws its power from its own usb-c power adaptor.
I had to test three 90° usb-c adapters to find one that doesn’t lead to errors like recurring disconnections of hdmi or usb components.
The two adapters beside the mouse didn’t work.
I have a Digitus DA-70882 docking station. I use this docking station with the original USB power adapter that came with the Librem 5.
I have an external monitor via HDMI and a Logitech wireless mouse/keyboard receiver connected to the docking station.
Usually, I can charge via this docking station, but when the Librem 5 battery is completely empty so that the Librem 5 shut down (and has been laying around empty for several hours), the Librem 5 does not charge any more in this docking station. When I connect it to the original power adapter directly, the red light indicates that it is charging. When this has happened, it is difficult to get the docking station to charge the Librem 5 again, even if the Librem 5 has been switched on after getting some charge directly from the USB adapter. Sometimes I have to apply the Recharging Procedure. Actually, I still do not exactly know what procedure I have to follow to get the docking station charging the Librem 5 again. I will try to figure out the exact procedure. Could it be related to the percentage of charge in the Librem 5 battery?
Maybe it is also noteworthy that I have disk encryption enabled. This results in the fact that when I power the Librem 5 on, the screen is switched on to ask for the disk encryption password. Maybe, when the battery is quite empty, this procedure takes to much energy to really boot the phone, even when connected to the USB adapter.
I’ve seen the battery do similar discharge rates before I ever used a hub …and after too. Just not quite that fast. After reading your reply, I’m guessing it’s just the logic/algorithm of the Librems 5s estimated charge rate adjusting. Or just a bug. Meaning there’s some conditions where that logic suddenly thinks the battery has quite a bit less charge than it had been estimating. Because I’ve seen right before my eyes where it drops from 40% to nearly zero in 2 or 3 minutes. Taking the USB-C power out of the dock seems to potentially trigger that. I never knew what the specifications for the max discharge rate were so it would be possible it’s the logic of the Libem5 whether it’s accurate or not.
100%=4.2V, when Librem 5 battery fully charged and inside of the phone. If Librem 5 battery charged outside of the Librem 5 to 4.35V, Librem 5 will show 100% again and anyway, let us understand that fact. Therefore finding exact point (meaning 4.2V) when to stop charging internally (by using original power supply), as original battery inserted into Librem 5, is difficult while battery by itself have no control over it (to include to not being overcharged, very positive approach from Purism that prolongs its expected usage lifetime significantly). @dos and @amosbatto told us already which peace of Librem 5 hardware (+ finely adjusted Linux or rather PureOS software) is in charge there, inside of the Librem 5.
As long as you are not using Librem 5 as a power bank* … or rather I’ll do that here showing two picture of currents of 5V/0.26A (standby mode, as mounted) and 5V/0.34A coming out from Librem 5 USB-C port in direction (please follow green arrow shown on measuring device) or toward some low consumption (just let me present it as such here) 256GB external SSD drive (just not to write here things that might not be simple, although logical, to explain):
Also, @KP2002, any of your potential further testings should be done from the point of having Librem 5 battery at 100% (4.2V), or rather from the point where Librem 5 red LED indicator turns off while connected to its 5.0V PD power supply, disconnect there originally provided power supply and connect/start your discharge testings.
I need to stop adding anything else to this post purposely.
Yes, I agree with your thought completely. Just to add is that I’m very satisfied and think that battery percentage shown within PureOS is more than accurate. It will improve with future Linux Kernels for sure, yet I’m already quite confident that % numbers shown are more than adequate. And, please do not count on much or rather full battery discharge performance (in general) when here related one as well as any other Li-ion battery under 50%. I do not know everything either as 50% probably equals to 3.8V, but not sure and not about to check this (but perhaps soon, just lazy at the moment, but anyway @guru might reliably check for the BPP-L503 voltage at GUI value of 50% and this battery taken out for such check/test).
*I have one in mind, it is old school 5V only based, with four 18650 cells (still have them somewhere), but not sure at this point if I’ll be able to get another one next week for the purpose of another (actual) discharging test (in order to measure max. 5.0V current going out from the Librem 5 USB-C port toward 5V microUSB from power bank that is built-in as its charging port only, to this very old school Anker power bank:
https://powerbanktest.net/test/anker-powercore-10000mah-quick-charge-3-0/ by expecting to pull out 5.0V/1.0A from Librem 5 USB-C port at least, for short time only). But anyway and what I might already conclude by myself, unofficially of course, USB-C port of Librem 5 should not be brought into situation where current passing through exceeds 1.5A, whatever direction used, in or out … even if from manufacturer provided/maximum Continuous Discharge Current/rate of BPP-L503 battery might be rated at more than 3.0A.
EDIT: Actually and to be correct, Librem 5 passing through the USB-C port amperage (besides throughout clearly defined precise voltage value) when charging only its battery should not to exceed much more than 2.0A (approximately and in total with its screen on) as necessarily and kindly presented here:
I’d recommend doing this: