I’m curious what other people think about the inclusion of a built in headphone jack. Personally i rather have a second usb port or even just have a neatly fit usb splitter attachment on a signle usb port. The 3.5 mm jack takes up space and particularly adds thickness. Also might increase water damage risk
I think it would be better to either make better use of the space internally or slim down the phone. Especially because, most basic head phones these days come with a usb c connector with a built in dac. And any headphones that are good enough to warrant using an analog connector to interchange DACs across devices, probably should just use an external dac anyway that’s from a 3rd party manufacturer whether that’s a basic/cheap but conveniently sized DAC that fits in the usb connector or a bit larger but premium mobile DAC.
I do realize though that inclusion of a built in head phone jack has been a heavily debated topic when smart phones started getting rid of them
The existing jack is at least intended to be used with the supplied ear buds. I think it’s good to have something that “just works” out-of-the-box. I also tried my analog headphones and they work equally well with the Librem 5.
I know that Apple has pushed the world in the direction of wireless (i.e. Bluetooth) audio output but not only is that something that doesn’t work very well (yet?) on the Librem 5, it’s also one more thing to go flat / need charging. And probably pushes the consumer in the direction of buying yet more expensive peripherals.
I understand that you are proposing not wireless but USB. I haven’t spent any time seeing whether USB audio works well in terms of the software. That would be something to test. (I think I can rustle up a basic USB-A headphone (i.e. built-in DAC), and can definitely rustle up a USB-A DAC with analog output. Neither of these is a “premium” device.
Obviously for the Librem 5 v2, the sky’s the limit on what you can ask for / speculate about - but in terms of the current design, I don’t know whether the daughter card could give a second USB-C port and, if so, the position may not be ideal for routing that to the top of the phone in order to replace the headphone jack. Alternatively, I don’t know whether the current regular USB could supply an additional USB-A port (which presumably would have to be a mini connector, which may not be ideal).
An added complication is that the existing headphone jack may be intended to be both input and output i.e. for analog headset. Some people may not want to give that up.
“An added complication is that the existing headphone jack may be intended to be both input and output i.e. for analog headset. Some people may not want to give that up.”
Many mobile DACs you can buy come with both a DAC and ADC so that mic and audio out both work when connected to headphones with a mic.
Alternatively, I don’t know whether the current regular USB could supply an additional USB-A port (which presumably would have to be a mini connector, which may not be ideal).
the librem 5 sells optionally with a usb c hub accessory for it, so i’d imagine some kind a small hub attachment that fits well onto phone could likely work.
I know that Apple has pushed the world in the direction of wireless (i.e. Bluetooth) audio output but not only is that something that doesn’t work very well (yet?) on the Librem 5, it’s also one more thing to go flat / need charging. And probably pushes the consumer in the direction of buying yet more expensive peripherals.
it might help for longevity of the primary usb ports anyway to have an attachable hub. Kinda like how Framework laptops swappable peripheral modules help extend the longevity of the usb ports directly attached to the board that the modules get plugged into
I don’t think I’d miss it. Just plug a small DAC into the phone and you’re away to the races. For traveling just use BT (when it works, can’t get it to work right with Crimson), for use at the desktop, just plug into your DAC.
I much prefer keeping the jack over losing it. Replacing it with a second USB port is an interesting idea, though, and AFAIK two ports would be unique among phones. I wouldn’t be opposed to this in theory.
Perhaps the second port could be non-OTG, which would simplify use with external devices that switch into a proprietary mode if they detect OTG (devices like this have vendor-provided apps on Android/iOS). A second port may also make convergence use cases a bit easier.
I would include a well-tested + cheap USB-C to TRRS jack (at cost) if going this route just to limit complaints. It’s a touchy subject.
I love the jack and only use it on travel. Better said, I would not hear music via phone at all without an available jack. On travel (via train etc) I take my headset from PC, and plug it in - easy as that. No wireless tracker, no battery issue and the jack is much more robust against unplugging on simple body movement. That is the best reason to stay on it. But also, with USB I would have to buy a new device or take the super long USB-A cable (it is so long to reach the PC-USB behind-below the desk) and plugin an USB-C adapter which makes USB even more unstable and easy to slip out.
However, I with the headphone jack would be on bottom, since I put my phone upside down in the trousers and I do not want the cable be connected on bottom while the phones weight is breaking the cable over time and it is annoying to turn phone with jack to top in the pockets. Still better than dealing with USB.
The size of L5 is related to the battery. So better ask for better batteries. Thanks to e-automobile we also get new technology that can also be used for phones with higher energy density and much more secure. Not sure if they’re ready for v2 (probably not), but the time will improve it. Personally I do not care about the size. It’s still thinner than old Nokia bones.
1 headphone jack and 2 USB-C all together at bottom of the phone would be nice.
While that is obviously more flexible, I am not convinced that this would be a good trade-off. The Librem 5 is already big enough. So you shouldn’t have to plug in a hub just to do audio output to headphones / headset / earbuds.
I am somewhat open to a straight replacement of the headphone jack with a USB mini connector that extends a USB 2.0 bus. (If it’s the bus that has the µSD card reader on it then performance is sucky but more than adequate for audio input/output - and in any case who knows what a hypothetical v2 might bring.)
The probable result is that the Librem 5 should no longer be supplied with a set of earbuds; and, if required, the customer would have to provide headphones (or a headset) of some type that contained a built-in DAC and used a USB connector - and the connector may need a small adapter from USB-A F to USB mini connector M.
A hub also has the disadvantage of power management. That is, we can assume that the hub in this use case is unpowered, and hence there are question marks over the number and type of devices that could be plugged into the hub anyway, not to mention the increased battery drain on the Librem 5. (For non-mobile use, I always try to buy powered hubs because you never know when the hub will run out of power grunt.)
Due to R&D and manufacturing costs related to mechanical design revisions, the Librem 5 v2 is expected to have the same mechanical design as v1, although material design may change, such as a sturdier rear cover. Therefore, v2 is expected to retain its headphone/microphone combo jack. Significant mechanical design improvements are being planned for later models.
I love headphone jack. When I think about new world order governance forcing me to stop using Librem 5 some day, I don’t know how I’ll manage. All their devices have no headphone jack. It’s like theyre trying to throw it in my face that they own the device not me, and I can’t have what I want. I bought a USB-to-headphone jack one time. It’s garbage and makes screeching clicking noises even on proprietary OSes. Meanwhile the Librem 5 headphone jack is beautiful and works great.
If somebody thinks the next Librem 5 isn’t good unless it’s a thin iPhone wafer thing that’s thinner that a headphone jack, I guess I feel bad for that person: they do not appear to care about what is important. The problems that Librem 5 has are mostly stemming from human society pressuring me not to use it. This isn’t solved by deleting its special features to be conformist. That’s the same situation as society winning and making me buy a different phone. It’s solved by making the Librem 5 run better and more reliably. (although fwiw i didnt move to Crimson yet, maybe I have added artificial reason to feel software is needed)
IMO: headphone jack is a big part of my digital life and it makes me happy. If you take it away, then I don’t like you. I don’t use power bricks I swap my battery out. Why? Because attaching dongles is super annoying. It’s the same with usb-to-headphone-jack. There’s going to be a moment you only have the phone and not the dongle to adapt your earbuds to be compatible. Why do you want that suffering?
Generally I don’t do this with my Librem 5 much. I have a fleet of Librem 5’s and chargers and I use the other ones and the chargers often in parallel. So when my daily driver unit battery runs low, I plug it momentarily to a charger, rip the battery out while it is still on, pop in a full energy battery, then unplug from the charger.
I think having to plug the phone into the wall, or leave it on a dock, as the only way to get energy… would seem very annoying. Then I couldn’t be always on my phone 24/7
Plugging in a usb dongle adapter for audio might be similarly annoying
Even if you don’t use this, why do you have such a strong opinion against headphone jack, phoshy? The jack doesn’t make the phone any thicker and just because you don’t need it … I know people who do not even use the SIM or the modem, .. should we get rid of, because not everyone uses it?
I just gave my reasoning as to why it might make more sense to remove it. And then most of my replies to people have been just explaining why some of their complaints about or expected problems from using an external DAC aren’t actually going to even be present if they did replace it with a usb port.
i genuinely wanted to hear what reasons it might be better to keep a headphone jack that i hadn’t already considered.
I know people who do not even use the SIM or the modem, .. should we get rid of, because not everyone uses it?
Also not having a SIM card is pretty different, its way more of a hassle to conveniently integrate SIM card support if its not built into the device,
and there’s also no huge need to swap out sim card modules, compared to how common it is to use various external DACs
I have some reservations about offering a USB-C connector if it’s not a port that is fully compatible with the existing USB-C connector. The reason is that it is confusing and unhelpful design to have two ports that look the same but which don’t function the same.
This can be partly mitigated by having a marker on the case to distinguish the two ports.
(By way of example, I have a laptop somewhere that has two USB-C ports but only one of them can be used to charge the device i.e. to plug in the supplied charger. The correct port to use is marked with the charging icon, roughly like , but the icon is small and easy to overlook, and I know for a fact that users have tried to charge using the wrong USB-C port and then wondered why it didn’t charge.)
That doesn’t materially affect your illustrative device though. It just means that you would have to find one that has a different USB connector.
, but the icon is small and easy to overlook, and I know for a fact that users have tried to charge using the wrong USB-C port and then wondered why it didn’t charge.)