Linux Tablet PC with Mobian

Available for “pre-order.”
:wink:

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Dare I try?

Fair in advance: “This is a non-refundable product, you will only get store credit.

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But… they promised!!! :rofl:

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I might even have tried, but this is too much for me:

image

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this one is getting shipped allready. (serving backlock till end of november or something)
https://shop.shiftphones.com/shift13mi.html
(only german language unfortunately)
looks like a nice device and is shipped with ubuntu.
keyboard with built in touch-keys seems like a neat idea.
Device still has issues that need to be sorted out of cause.

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I am very tempted but the price and that non-refundable aspects are a couple red flags for me.

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Juno is a reputable seller of rebadged Clevo laptops. I’m guessing that tablet is also an OEM rebadge rather than a custom design. AFAIK, Juno didn’t maintain its own distro, do much kernel customization or offer Coreboot ports, so it doesn’t have a lot of experience in doing the kind of dev work required to support a Linux tablet. Maybe the company is paying someone to do the heavy lifting to support a Linux tablet, or maybe the company is just waiting for the community to figure it out. It is hard for me to tell based on the info on the web site. I wouldn’t recommend buying without more info on how Juno is supporting this tablet. If they have someone beavering away on the kernel, then it might be worth supporting this project.

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I live in Germany and still I don’t consider this brand as an option.
They promote themselves with being “sustainable” and at the same time they manufacture in PRC.
Fairphone, Shift and the like just refuse to understand that sustainability is more than the sourcing of materials, the repairability, and the fair wages for the employees.

Sustainability includes:

  • fighting monopolies in the supply chain
  • security of supply
  • not giving money to dictatorships that would use the money with high probability for weapons to wage aggressive wars

The war in Ukraine caused such an insane damage to the environment that at the end of the day preventing the war would have been much better for the environment than a huge number of the environmental policies we implemented in the West over the last 2 decades.
We failed in preventing this war.
Now what we could do is to help prevent the next war which is much larger and much more dangerous and could be triggered by PRC.

And while many manufacture in China. At least others don’t sell themselves as a sustainable choice.

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I got JingPad vibes

Is there not a ban against political statements at this forum?

N.B. Manufacturing in China is sustainable (only illegal sanctions prevent delivery) and gives poor people a way out of poverty.

Decide for yourself based on: Forum RULES - please read before posting

However perhaps both of you could learn to use “Reply as linked topic” since the discussion, even where tangentially relevant technologically, is likely to drag the topic off-topic.

They just make very advanced products up to their end-user expectations (when users have some, yet mostly end-user means consumer).

Also, that Sono Motors is about to build their Sion in Trollhättan is not secret any more, yet that it will be built on top of the most sustainable battery (up to this date) is not known broadly: https://www.sono.community/inoffizielle-sononews/29-en-wannda-circus-tech-video-battery-behind-the-scenes.

I would agree and as further comment (self-explanatory to those that care), the best sustainable car that you could already buy in Europe last year was BYD Tang, but interestingly you could have buy it only if you live in Norway. Not much about “politics”, from my side, and people that make their money from it (through whatever means, while those “think” they are helping “someone” to survive), yet might define further what “we” are trying to define/achieve at the end of this decade.

And as further example, Mr. Neymar Jr. is not coming from politics branch yet he knows exactly what sustainability for the global environment and therefore for Europe itself means: https://www.neymarjr.com/es/cultura/neymar-jr-e-go-mobile-eletric-car-e-wave-x-launch. And, sorry for asking, is it about marriage at all?

P.S. Did I forgot to mention Google LLC in my post? If so, please excuse myself.

P.P.S.

Yes, I do agree. Actually did anyone of you learned something from the war that was going on from 24 March 1999 to 10 June 1999? Perhaps some of you are still aware of how many Chinese people (innocent ones that were just working there) were killed on some particular bombing during that period of time, therefore please live this subject to “experts” (if not to politicians that just took over, are in charge now … are taking care of their own nations, of course they “do”, as already noted from your side).

EDIT: Does anybody of you know on why Operation Overlord happened one year after, one year too late? Well, those that do not know the reason for this particular delay until now, those do not need to know anything about it anyway.

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Actually, this topic is for the Round Table and not for the Librem / Librem 5 category in the first place as it is about non Purism products.

Regarding Jan2 complaining about politics is kind of funny considering that approximately 70% of his posts for 2022 are on politics.

Now we really drift away from the topic of Linux Tablet PC on which I just wrote why I don’t like the brand Shift.

Please don’t start the Kosovo comparison. It is not only infuriating wrong, but it is also inviting for a monstrous and unnecessary off-topic.
Yugoslavia refused to implement numerous resolutions of the UN.
Yugoslavia could have ended the war earlier or preventing it altogether if Yugoslavia would have simply withdrawn its troops. Every day of war in 1999 lies as a responsibility to Miloshevich because he was refusing to withdraw.
If Ukraine stops fighting it will be conquered. Huge difference.

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I guess that you can argue that monopolies aren’t sustainable, since having only one producer can lead to disruption of the supply. However, “sustainability” doesn’t really fit your second and third criteria.
I think that “ethical concern” is the term that you should be using instead of “sustainability”, because spy-chips inserted in circuit boards can be sustainable, but not ethical. Likewise, a dictatorship can be sustainable, but not ethical.

However, let’s examine each point that you raise. None of the Chinese electronics companies have a monopoly. Intel and Qualcomm are far closer to being monopolies, and they have a history of abusing their monopoly power. However, both Intel and Qualcomm have been regulated and heavily fined by governments, and both companies are currently losing market share, so they are less of a threat to society than they used to be. Ironically, Intel and Qualcomm are better in terms of FOSS than their competitors, so people who want to promote software freedom often end up choosing their chips despite their history of monopoly abuse.

If your argument is that the PRC as a whole has a monopoly over the assembly of electronics, then you have a better argument. Roughly 60% of the world’s cell phones and 90% of the world’s laptops are assembled in the PRC. However, the PRC doesn’t hold any special patents or power to force companies to do their assembly there. Any country can make rules as India, Brazil and Indonesia have done to make sure that phones sold inside their borders were assembled domestically. Ironically, the mobile phone companies which were quickest to move their assembly to places like India and Brazil were Chinese companies like Xiaomi, B&K Electronics and Transsion Holdings. Over the last 5 years, the percentage of the world’s mobile phones made in China has actually fallen from 70% to 60% due to some governments insisting that their phones be assembled domestically and the US-China trade war. The EU and USA could make rules similar to India to force companies to do their assembly domestically.

As for second point about “security of supply”, the Bloomberg story about inserted Chinese spychips in Supermicro servers was never independently verified. For the Western consumer, the far greater threat comes from spying from their own government, and the Snowden revelations showed that the US, UK, French, Spanish, Swedish and German government spy agencies were all engaging in mass surveillance and the NSA was intercepting Cisco, Juniper, Huawei, Dell and HP telecom equipment in the shipping to change the firmware to permit spying.

As for the third point about giving money to dictatorships, the US government supports 73% of the world’s dictatorships with military assistance. If we are going to boycott Chinese electronics companies, there is an argument to be made that we should also boycott US-based companies like Intel, AMD, Apple, Qualcomm, Nvidia, etc., since the US government is giving a lot of money to dictatorships around the world. As for promoting wars of aggression, the US has a far worse history of doing that than China. Since 2001, the US has dropped 326,000 bombs in 9 countries (Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, Lebanon, Libya, Pakistan, Palestine and Somalia), which was illegal under international law.

I am not saying that people shouldn’t be concerned about the surveillance state that the PRC is creating or the threat of China invading Taiwan, but my point is that there is a lot of moral complexity, and the PRC isn’t the only bad actor.

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Let’s try not to stray too far off-topic (Linux Tablet PC, Mobian - based on Purism’s phosh, the company Juno Computers).

Here’s some company info:


(I think they meantA few words”, not “Few words.”) :wink:

Also see:
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/juno-computers

There’s also a LinkedIn entry…but I don’t go there.

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The huge difference is that China is by far the most capable actor after the US in the World and a war between China and the US could cause huge number of human casualties and huge damage to the environment. For that reason, I care by far more about China more than for example Vietnam or other countries.

I will restrain on larger answer for the sake to avoid the long off-topic discussion.

@amosbatto I really value you as a person and one of the most valuable contributors to the forum. I would be glad to offer you an online session (entirely if you wish so) to go through all documented factors on the topic Ukraine in order to be sure that your judgment regarding the situation is not influenced by preconceived anti-American sentiment. Only documented info allowed, no “expert opinions”. I would be very glad to provide you with data and sources. We would create a list of facts with sources and likelihood of reliability, and you can then judge for yourself. Get in touch with me using direct message in case you decide to accept my invitation.

This radar capture might be easily related to our surrounding environment: https://graphics.reuters.com/UKRAINE-CRISIS/ENERGY-AIRPLANE/klpykxjkxpg/chart.png. A few (those that do not investigate anyway) might be about to accept what happened as is.

What is the value to this topic of posting now that a US plane flew over the Nord Stream pipeline several hours after the explosions?
-> Does this bring the discussion to more focus? To cool down?
-> Is it your way to “prove” that the “evil” Americans blew up Nord Stream? Maybe they did. We don’t know. This plane route certainly proves absolutely nothing.
What is clear is that the Nors Stream explosions and spill is environmental damage as a part of the war.

Yes, war brings huge environmental damage. Some wars have the potential to cause more damage than other wars. This is why for me sustainability includes the reduction of the capability of China to initiate a war.

I could have myself answered several times longer to your post or several times longer to the post from Amosbatto but restrained of doing that because I hoped that the topic cools down. Out of the several posts of you and Amosbatto we could start a number of different long topics:

  • Kosovo war
  • Why was the D-Day only in 1944
  • Which of the US strikes in the 21st century were legal and which not. For each of the 9 cases we could write separate long discussions.
  • What is the difference between Taiwan and Ukraine on the one side and Miloshevich, Saddam, Gaddafi, and pirates or terrorist in Lebanon, Somalia, Yemen, Syria, Pakistan ect on the other side.
  • Why the sins of US don’t change the fact that other countries can be a security risk.
  • More on the mechanism how a war outweighs lifting people out of poverty and how it damages the environment so much that it outweighs the benefits of having less emissions during product manufacturing.
  • Can boycotting US products really reduce the US capability for military interventions overseas? Would reduction in US military interventions overseas be more beneficial or more harmful to the World?
  • Is a war between China and the US inevitable? Can the likelihood be reduced or delayed by boycotting Chinese products?

It is a rabbit hole.

Btw. I noticed that you misunderstood what I mean by security of supply. I don’t mean interception during transport.
I mean it as that if the whole supply comes from a single source, then in case of disruption, there would be no supply or highly limited supply. Like for example if a war China-Taiwan-US happens, this would obviously cause a huge disruption in the supply of notebooks and as notebooks are not only for playing video games and writing posts on the Purism-Forum, but also for work, this would cause huge damage to the World economy. It is about putting all eggs in one basket, and it is just ridiculous that our society has created such insane concentration on one place for such key technology.
I understand that moving assembly from China to another country in the area does not solve the problem completely as parts are still going to come from Taiwan and China, but it is at least some progress and increases the likelihood that alternative supply chain could be organized faster in a case of emergency. If you move assembly from China to let us say just as an example Brazil and Poland you also increase the likelihood that at some point the needed chips are also going to be manufactured closer to Brazil and Poland and at some point instead of having a total supply focus on China-Taiwan you could achieve supply from China, East Europe, and South America and thus diversifying the supply and increasing the security of supply.

So there’s no chance whatsoever that this topic could discuss … the Juno tablet PC? :frowning:

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