No longer listed on the Qubes website's certification page?

[amosbatto]

@michael.qubes

The current process makes clear the conditions for certification, in particular that the manufacturer offer to customers the same configuration for at least a year.

I don’t use Qubes, so I don’t have a dog in this fight, but the fact that the only certified laptops are rebranded Thinkpad X230s, which were originally released in May 2012 with third generation Core processors, tells me that the Qubes certification process does not work for Linux hardware sellers who produce new products (as opposed to rebadging used laptops from 9 years ago that will never change their hardware).

I don’t know the details of what happened with Purism, but the fact that none of the Linux hardware companies that sell new SBCs, tablets, laptops, desktop PCs and servers has gotten certified tells me that Qubes needs to take a step back and evaluate whether its certification requirements are really helping its users select the right sellers.

Qubes is an operating system that works best with lots of cores and lots of RAM, so it seems to me that the organization is not helping its users, when it recommends laptops which have two slow 3rd-gen cores and a limit of 16GB DDR3 RAM. The Librem 14 with six 10th-gen cores and a max of 64GB DDR4 RAM is going to run Qubes far better than the X230 from 2012, and the same is true for the other Linux laptops being sold by System76, TUXEDO Computers, ThinkPenguin, Slimbook, Star Labs, ubuntushop.eu, laptopwithlinux.com, Juno Computers, Entroware, ZaReason, Linux Certified, Dell, etc.

[MrChromebox]

@michael.qubes

The current process makes clear the conditions for certification, in particular that the manufacturer offer to customers the same configuration for at least a year. This point was made explicit out of the experience with Purism and the Librem 13, which went through a number of hardware changes as the company worked to stabilize its laptop offering while at the same time already selling it to end-users.

and Purism doesn’t intend to ship the same firmware/BIOS on any products for a year without updating, that’s just silly given how often Intel releases critical microcode updates (ignoring other fixes/improvements we may want to ship as well). The requirement is simply poorly thought out given the way modern hardware works.

[Kyle_Rankin]

@michael.qubes if you want to resume any kind of discussions on the certification program please feel free to email me.

[michael.qubes]

@amosbatto

the fact that none of the Linux hardware companies that sell new SBCs, tablets, laptops, desktop PCs and servers has gotten certified tells me that Qubes needs to take a step back and evaluate whether its certification requirements are really helping its users select the right sellers.

certification is a process that involves active involvement with the manufacturer, it is not something the Qubes project applies to a device that it finds compatible. it might be worth reading the difference between Qubes certification, compatibility, tested. reviewing the page on Qubes certification will make clear our intention with it: “We hope these hardware requirements will encourage the development of more secure and trustworthy devices.”

@amosbatto

laptops being sold by System76, TUXEDO Computers, ThinkPenguin, Slimbook, Star Labs, ubuntushop.eu, laptopwithlinux, Juno Computers, Entroware, ZaReason, Linux Certified, Dell, etc.

we’re a FOSS project, please feel welcome to help us reach out to these manufacturers – since certification requires open-source BIOS, that reduces the list to System76 and Star Labs (didn’t know about Star Labs, thanks for sharing). if you want feedback on any drafted emails you can share them with me or the qubes-project mailing list.

@MrChromebox

The requirement is simply poorly thought out given the way modern hardware works.

…as stated, the requirement came out of the experience of the manufacturer. if you want to show it’s not necessary, only one way to do that

@Kyle_Rankin

if you want to resume any kind of discussions on the certification program please feel free to email me.

while it wasn’t my intention, will do!

thanks all – if you want to further discuss Qubes OS, I encourage you to stop by the Qubes community forum:

Qubes OS Community Forum

[Corbeau]

As a Qubes and Purism user, I can say that I would love for both parties to find a mutually beneficial way to work together. I know that I, for one, will be throwing Qubes 4 on my Librem 14 first thing. One often wants one’s friends to be mutual friends as well.

[amosbatto]

@michael.qubes

that reduces the list to System76 and Star Labs (didn’t know about Star Labs, thanks for sharing).

I didn’t realize that Star Labs now offers Coreboot. That is good news. TUXEDO Computers and Slimbook say on their websites that they intend to do Coreboot ports for their devices, so you may want to contact them as well.