My incentive to buy from Purism was to support USA made electronic/tech products. Not having a listening device in my home ie a smart phone, was a secondary incentive but mostly it was to encourage locally made tech. I am not a techy person. I use computers for work. Other than that I don’t care about them. I need one to take me to the internet for research and access my email. That is about it. In my research of Purism and their laptops and phones (I am awaiting a Librem 5 now), I was disappointed in the lack of real reviews. There is a lot of chatter about the products being expensive. I disagree. They are made in the USA. What do you expect if your goods aren’t made by underpaid slave labor? Buying things made fairly costs money. How many of you have upgraded your iphones year after year. Surely you out spent what I have spent if I simply hold onto my electronics instead of treating them like fashion symbols. So I was ok with the cost. I received my Librem 14 promptly. Set up is basic. There was an issue with the camera and mic that weren’t working. This was easily solved/fixed with an update and it brought to light one of the great things about owning one of these computers. Human tech support. One very patient person walked me through the fix (or update that was needed in this case) and he was the same person who walked me through a few other questions. It was nice to have that consistent line of help. One source of info for one customer so there didn’t have to be this fresh retelling of info each time I reached out. Bottom line is the laptop is a laptop. Frankly I don’t really think about it being a Librem now. It just works as it should. It’s quick, does what I need it to. For anyone out there who is considering buying from Purism and is put off by any negative comments floating out there in the ether, as a general consumer, I will vouch for them making a solid product which feels good to own on many levels. For privacy reasons I’m not a subscriber to youtube but I’d urge anyone who is, and who is happy with their Purism product, to make a video showing it’s use, giving it a review etc. The thing Purism is lacking IMO is a loud and vocal customer base that champions the cause.
I’m coming up on my four year anniversary of buying the Librem 13. Aside from the handling of the hinge issue, Purism product and support has been excellent. I admit I got discouraged for a while, but when Kyle Rankin recently started his promotional blogging, I changed my mind and bought the Librem 14. I don’t need another Debian distro, but I keep using PureOS because it is getting much better over time and because Purism is working hard on convergence with the phone.
$2000 for a US-made phone is much too much for my budget, but I am encouraged by the AWEsim program and the recent lower-priced offering. I would prefer a $1000 phone and a $30/mo low usage cell plan, but the direction is right and I can be patient.
Librem one is not useful for me, but if Purism worked to integrate the laptop and phone into a server with local cloud service, then I would buy the bundle and finally be free of Google and all other cloud services. That is my nirvana and Purism is the only company moving in that direction.
You might be confused.
The Librem 14 is not made in the USA.
The Librem 5 is not made in the USA.
The Librem 5 USA is assembled in the USA and the PCB boards are made in the USA, but most of the important parts (the SoC = system on a chip, the wifi module, the cellular module) are not made in the USA. The SoC = “system on a chip” is the guts of the system. All of the interesting stuff is there. The PCB is basically there to connect the battery, power management, screen and other external IO ports to the SoC.
Did you really think that the Librem 14 and the Librem 5 were made in the USA???
fully aware of locations of origin and of location of assembly and difference between assembly location of Librem 14 and Librem 5 USA and tho not everything was assembled here or produced here, some things are and that’s enough for me. have a desire to promote production of computers / phones here in the States or in countries that are strong allies. The location of production however was not the point of my post. The point to my post was to encourage any users of Purism products who are happy with them, to post reviews because for anyone interested in the products and trying to research, they wont find much. Mostly some odd ball vague reviews and Purism promo vids on youtube.
Great!
Again, though, I noticed you said “not everything was assembled or produced here”. A more accurate statement would be that “hardly anything is assembled here” (only the Librem 5 USA PCB+assembly and the Librem Key [designed by Nitrokey]).
I’m sure you’re aware that Purism won’t even reveal the ODM for the Librem 14 and it is fully manufactured outside the US? Also, while the Librem 5 was designed by Purism, Purism hasn’t AFAIK revealed who their manufacturer is. And I’m sure you’re aware that the Mini’s are rebranded Chinese NUC knock-offs with a different Wifi module and coreboot ( The mini v1 is this https://www.eglobaltech.cn/ViewDetails270.aspx as one can tell with certainty by comparing the FCC documents).
I just want to make sure you have separated what I view as deceptive marketing from reality.
The point to my post was to encourage any users of Purism products who are happy with them, to post reviews because for anyone interested in the products and trying to research, they wont find much.
I see. It seemed like half of your review was “locally made tech” and in regard to the Librem 14 and Librem 5 you actually said “There is a lot of chatter about the products being expensive. I disagree. They are made in the USA”. Neither the Librem 14 nor the Librem 5 are made in the USA … so why did you say that???
I’ll let others weigh in on this and certainly if any Purism admin is watching it would be good for them to clarify but this is what I know, in addition to knowing that very few parts are made in US but at least some are on the 5. Before purchasing the Librem 14 I reached out to Purism and asked where it was made. This is their reply: “Librem 14 parts come from all over the world, initial manufacture is done in factories in South-East Asia and final assembly in California, USA.”
Regarding the Librem 5 USA, I took them at their word and what is written on their own website:
“All the electronics will be made in our USA facility, and the entire phone will be Assembled in the USA”
With both products having some or all assembly done in the USA, even if minimally in the case of the 14, it satisfied my wish to purchase items from a company at least attempting to produce in the states. With that said, I will retire from this conversation and let anyone else with helpful, concrete info add to this thread
I think you are a victim of what is, IMO, deceptive advertising. It would be good to have someone from Purism weigh in.
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Librem 14. If there is any assembly in the US at all, it would be configuring the laptop as ordered: insert RAM according to order, insert the wifi card, insert the ordered NVME/SSD, inserting the battery, placing it in a box. The laptop is, otherwise, fully assembled elsewhere (probably China). The same can be said for laptops from HP, Dell, and others. [Aside: Purism probably also does the OS install, firmware flash, and final Quality Control test.]
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Librem 5. Assembly: Install battery, wifi module, cellular modem and box for shipping. Possibly also making sure the antenna is in place for the cellular modem. The phone though is otherwise full assembled elsewhere (China, I think).
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Librem 5 USA. Purism says: “All the electronics will be made in our USA facility”. I’ve called them out on this before. This is why I said “deceptive marketing”. By “all electronics” they must only be counting the PCBs. The SoC is made in S. Korea, the LCD panel is made in China, the cellular modem is made in China (Broadmobi) or Germany (Gemalto, which is not currently available), the wifi/bluetooth module is made in India. See 8.6 from the community FAQ https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#86-where-are-the-librem-5-and-librem-5-usa-assembled-and-where-are-their-components-made . The assembly for this is definitely in the USA.
With that said, I will retire from this conversation and let anyone else with helpful, concrete info add to this thread
OK. Half of the reason people are upset with Purism is due to what they perceive as deceptive marketing. You might be an example of someone who has been deceived.
Could be. Feels like you’re getting hustled everywhere you turn these days. However
I’m going to give Purism a little benefit of doubt here. I believe they are doing assembly here as reported. I think if these things were being pumped out in a Taiwanese factory, most of us would have our phones by now. Lets assume that the 14 only has a few finishing screws turned by the folks in Carlsbad and that the 5 has 50% of it’s guts made in the States and is assembled here, well I’m OK with that. I think we outta make some stuff here for the sake of self reliance. The odds are stacked against a US company trying to make a go of this. So God bless em for trying. Because if you think about it, who the hell else is trying? I can’t think of a single other company trying to get off the ground here. So I’ll support that. The false advertising you speak of? Yes, I cringed a little at the hype videos. I took it in stride. Again, they’re trying to establish a company in a market designed to crush them. I’m happy to aid in the battle. I don’t feel like I was sold a lie. I feel like my eyes were open wide going in. I am truly happy with the 14 I’m typing this on. One day I’ll get my 5 and likely be happy with it. Maybe Purism’s a little like the Sex Pistols. It may have been a ‘swindle’ but I sure enjoyed the album.
In terms of assembly, the Librem 5 is similar to the Librem 14: There is very little assembly in the US. Simply adding in the plug-in components and connecting to the antenna.
The Librem 5 USA is different. It is fully assembled in the US. The PCBs are made in the US. Those are unique. But I still think their marketing is deceptive when they talk about “all electronics”.
Because if you think about it, who the hell else is trying? I can’t think of a single other company trying to get off the ground here.
With regard to devices like the Librem 14, there are several US companies doing similar. Like I said, there is nothing “US made” here. Compare with system76 and others.
With regard to the Librem 5 USA, Purism is different. I don’t put any value on that personally, but it’s the only phone (since the Moto X stopped being produced in the USA in 2014 or 2015) where the PCB is made in the USA.
What Purism can be applauded for is their commitment to FOSS hardware and their
FOSS upstreaming efforts to support it. For laptops, it’s not really any more than I see with system76 and others. With regard to the Librem 5 there are only a few others to compare with. While Pine64 is based in Hong Kong (it used to be based in CA), they have done just as much for FOSS phones and FOSS devices at least in terms of hardware. Like the Librem 5, though, it’s all made-in-china. But, again, I care mostly about FOSS compatible
hardware.
I think the most significant factor in this case that is determining price is volume.
Obviously a complicated question, cutting across design, PCB assembly, other assembly, and components.
It is doubtful that anyone can buy a general purpose computer that is made entirely in just one country (even if we ignore raw materials). So it’s more about the percentage.
Thanks for the review. Can’t wait for my Librem device!
Rather than faulting Purism, I think it’s important to appreciate how difficult it is to make a consumer electronic device in today’s world without relying on Chinese parts. The more I looked at the details of the Librem 5 USA, the more I came away thinking that it is a fairly good effort at making a device with components sourced from outside China, while trying to avoid runaway costs. How many other devices are out there making a comparable effort? I am not aware of any. Keep up the good work Purism!
That’s only the Librem 5 USA and not the Librem 5 and Librem 14.
Why can’t I do both in regard to the Librem 5 USA?
Do I think it’s great that they are making their own PCBs and assembling it here? Yes. If anything it shows other manufacturers that there is a demand for such goods (although it was too niche to help with the sales of the Moto X).
Do I think that they are deceiving customers? Yes. The “source of parts” table that didn’t include most of the parts was deceptive. That is wrong. I think people were misled by the “all electronics will be made in our USA facility” statement. That is wrong.
I agree with you. We can do both: appreciate what Purism gets right and call out what they do wrong.
Although this leads to another point in Purism’s favor. That is, many of the criticisms of Purism can surface only because of Purism’s relative openness. For example, we have this forum where we can ask questions and get clarification about their devices. When other companies make misleading claims (don’t think they don’t), we often have no way to dig in and get a clearer understanding. Purism is definitely not perfect, but even their flaws sometimes show something positive about the company because they came to light in the first place.
Wrong or open to interpretation? (as it applies to the Librem 5 USA)
However all of this is a digression because the original post could be interpreted to say that the Librem 14 is made in the USA and that is not, I think, something that Purism itself is ever claiming.
The actual text in the original post is ambiguous.
[Me] I think people were misled by the “all electronics will be made in our USA facility” statement.
You cut the " I think people were misled by …" off of my quote. I’ve put it back in, and stand by it.
Electronics = circuits or devices using transistors, microchips, and other components.
The SoC should count as “electronics”. It’s currently fabbed in Korea.
The cellular modem (Broadmobi) should count as “electronics”. It’s made in China.
The wifi/bt module (Redpine) should count as “electronics”. It’s made in India.
The LCD display is electronics. I believe it is made in China.
You can’t believe the number of people who think that Purism’s statement means that everything except for the case and, maybe, batteries are made in the USA. It’s deceptive. Purism has very recently (some time after March 28th, 2022) updated the text around the “Table of Origin” for some good clarification. Is it a coincidence that this chain started on March 28th 2022??? The text on March 28th, 2022 said:
[Edit: I was confused. There is a “Made in USA Electronics” section and a separate “Table of Origin” section. The explanatory text before the Table of Origin was added after June 3, 2021. I think the “Made in USA Electronics” is unchanged, but still deceptive. ]
Made in USA Electronics
The Librem 5 USA has the same features and look of the Librem 5 on the outside, but all the electronics will be made in our USA facility, and the entire phone will be Assembled in the USA, using the same manufacturing process we used for the Librem 5 devkits in 2018 and Librem Key made in the USA in 2019. By doing all electronics fabrication within the boundaries of our facility Purism can oversee each stage of the production. The Librem 5 USA exists alongside our regular Librem 5; it’s the same freedom you’ve grown to trust with Purism products, it’s the same operating system (PureOS), the same software, and the same privacy protections built in; the Librem 5 USA adds a highly controlled secure supply chain.
The text today reads
Table of Origin
The Librem 5 USA has Made in USA Electronics with all fabrication and manufacturing done at the Purism facility. Individual components used in fabrication are sourced direct from chip makers and parts distributors. We use US companies with US fabrication whenever possible. Most distributors are based in the US with the exception of large integrated circuits that are made in a variety of countries where those companies do fabrication (US, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan); an example is the NXP CPU we use from their fabrication in South Korea. While we source chips that are made in the US whenever possible, chip country of origin is not nearly as meaningful as country of board fabrication, especially when all chips are verified hardware circuits that are driven by free software in the kernel.
All a digression though. Purism is not claiming that the Librem 14 laptop is made in the USA. Right? Maybe you could take the debate about the Librem 5 USA to a separate topic.
I don’t think so. But, clearly, the OP was confused. It’s a Librem 14 review and they say:
There is a lot of chatter about the products being expensive. I disagree. They are made in the USA. What do you expect if your goods aren’t made by underpaid slave labor?
After some corrections, they later clarify that they had been told:
“Librem 14 parts come from all over the world, initial manufacture is done in factories in South-East Asia and final assembly in California, USA.”
I agree with that quote. But the OP seemed to be confused about what “final assembly” was all about. It’s about putting in the 3rd-party parts according to the order (RAM, SSD, wifi modem), testing it, and putting it in a box to ship. Which is also what is done with Dell, HP, and many other companies.
There seems to be great concern about the OP being confused or the victim of bad business practices and deception. I want to thank you all for your concern. I’m just fine. As you know, because I’ve already stated it, I am very familiar with the difference between ‘made in’ and ‘assembled in’ and before buying the 14, I asked the company about location of production and was satisfied with the answer: “some assembly in USA”. And I have stated that I will take the company at their word on the 5 USA. In an effort to support a company attempting new things in a market almost entirely dominated by Asia, I purchased 2 items from them. The first item, I am typing on right now and I’m quite pleased. Being pleased with the product reminded me of the complete lack of real user reviews on the internet. Assuming there was a crowd out there who received their product and were happy with it, like I am, I posted something to encourage others to make even a 30 second video saying, “heres the box, let me open it, here’s a phone, it works. This is real”. In my post I gave a little backstory as to what led ME to buy the product. And said I wanted to support made in USA electronics. I was not aware of the level of exhaustive sticklerism on this forum (have to say, I’m not a internet forum type of guy) and need for repeated clarity. So again, I purchased from Purism to support USA made electronics. See, even if I buy a 14 made in Taiwan that has a little bit of post production assembly in the US, like the feet being screwed on, that’s already more than just opening a box stamped china in the Best Buy stockroom. And the support of the 14 should support the company which is making something called a Librem5USA which is being produced in the USA and has some USA electronics in it. After exhaustive research it appears to be the only telephone made in America. If anyone feels that that is a lie or disputes that, I highly recommend filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission who handles ‘country of origin’ issues. That ought to really get to the bottom of it. Meanwhile, having once again clarified my evidently controversial words, I’m outta here. Better things to do with my time than bicker with strangers on the ol interweb. My parting wish? May the internet break so we once again will need to go down the VFW Hall if a group needs to discuss something. Irvine? It’s your turn to bring the coffee.
Thanks! I see you understand.
My concern stems from your initial post/review. It looked like you were confused about the Librem 14 — the review still contains the phrase that would seem to indicate that you think the Librem 14 was made in the USA:
[You] “I was disappointed in the lack of real reviews. There is a lot of chatter about the products being expensive. I disagree. They are made in the USA. … So I was ok with the cost. I received my Librem 14 promptly.”
I don’t want anybody, including people reading your review, to be deceived.
[You, above] See, even if I buy a 14 made in Taiwan that has a little bit of post production assembly in the US, like the feet being screwed on, that’s already more than just opening a box stamped china in the Best Buy stockroom.
Sure. I understand. But, of course, you should understand that several major laptop makers do “final assembly” in the US. HP business laptops (Elitebooks and, I think, Probooks) are assembled in the US. Lenovo Thinkpads for the US market are assembled in North Carolina. Aside: Dell used to do final assembly in the US for all of their products, but now I think they only do that for a subset of their desktop products.