No nonsense review from an actual user of Librem 14 laptop

Hardware
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Great!

Again, though, I noticed you said “not everything was assembled or produced here”. A more accurate statement would be that “hardly anything is assembled here” (only the Librem 5 USA PCB+assembly and the Librem Key [designed by Nitrokey]).

I’m sure you’re aware that Purism won’t even reveal the ODM for the Librem 14 and it is fully manufactured outside the US? Also, while the Librem 5 was designed by Purism, Purism hasn’t AFAIK revealed who their manufacturer is. And I’m sure you’re aware that the Mini’s are rebranded Chinese NUC knock-offs with a different Wifi module and coreboot ( The mini v1 is this https://www.eglobaltech.cn/ViewDetails270.aspx as one can tell with certainty by comparing the FCC documents).

I just want to make sure you have separated what I view as deceptive marketing from reality.

The point to my post was to encourage any users of Purism products who are happy with them, to post reviews because for anyone interested in the products and trying to research, they wont find much.

I see. It seemed like half of your review was “locally made tech” and in regard to the Librem 14 and Librem 5 you actually said “There is a lot of chatter about the products being expensive. I disagree. They are made in the USA”. Neither the Librem 14 nor the Librem 5 are made in the USA … so why did you say that???

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I’ll let others weigh in on this and certainly if any Purism admin is watching it would be good for them to clarify but this is what I know, in addition to knowing that very few parts are made in US but at least some are on the 5. Before purchasing the Librem 14 I reached out to Purism and asked where it was made. This is their reply: “Librem 14 parts come from all over the world, initial manufacture is done in factories in South-East Asia and final assembly in California, USA.”
Regarding the Librem 5 USA, I took them at their word and what is written on their own website:
“All the electronics will be made in our USA facility, and the entire phone will be Assembled in the USA”
With both products having some or all assembly done in the USA, even if minimally in the case of the 14, it satisfied my wish to purchase items from a company at least attempting to produce in the states. With that said, I will retire from this conversation and let anyone else with helpful, concrete info add to this thread

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I think you are a victim of what is, IMO, deceptive advertising. It would be good to have someone from Purism weigh in.

  1. Librem 14. If there is any assembly in the US at all, it would be configuring the laptop as ordered: insert RAM according to order, insert the wifi card, insert the ordered NVME/SSD, inserting the battery, placing it in a box. The laptop is, otherwise, fully assembled elsewhere (probably China). The same can be said for laptops from HP, Dell, and others. [Aside: Purism probably also does the OS install, firmware flash, and final Quality Control test.]

  2. Librem 5. Assembly: Install battery, wifi module, cellular modem and box for shipping. Possibly also making sure the antenna is in place for the cellular modem. The phone though is otherwise full assembled elsewhere (China, I think).

  3. Librem 5 USA. Purism says: “All the electronics will be made in our USA facility”. I’ve called them out on this before. This is why I said “deceptive marketing”. By “all electronics” they must only be counting the PCBs. The SoC is made in S. Korea, the LCD panel is made in China, the cellular modem is made in China (Broadmobi) or Germany (Gemalto, which is not currently available), the wifi/bluetooth module is made in India. See 8.6 from the community FAQ https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#86-where-are-the-librem-5-and-librem-5-usa-assembled-and-where-are-their-components-made . The assembly for this is definitely in the USA.

With that said, I will retire from this conversation and let anyone else with helpful, concrete info add to this thread

OK. Half of the reason people are upset with Purism is due to what they perceive as deceptive marketing. You might be an example of someone who has been deceived.

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Could be. Feels like you’re getting hustled everywhere you turn these days. However
I’m going to give Purism a little benefit of doubt here. I believe they are doing assembly here as reported. I think if these things were being pumped out in a Taiwanese factory, most of us would have our phones by now. Lets assume that the 14 only has a few finishing screws turned by the folks in Carlsbad and that the 5 has 50% of it’s guts made in the States and is assembled here, well I’m OK with that. I think we outta make some stuff here for the sake of self reliance. The odds are stacked against a US company trying to make a go of this. So God bless em for trying. Because if you think about it, who the hell else is trying? I can’t think of a single other company trying to get off the ground here. So I’ll support that. The false advertising you speak of? Yes, I cringed a little at the hype videos. I took it in stride. Again, they’re trying to establish a company in a market designed to crush them. I’m happy to aid in the battle. I don’t feel like I was sold a lie. I feel like my eyes were open wide going in. I am truly happy with the 14 I’m typing this on. One day I’ll get my 5 and likely be happy with it. Maybe Purism’s a little like the Sex Pistols. It may have been a ‘swindle’ but I sure enjoyed the album.

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In terms of assembly, the Librem 5 is similar to the Librem 14: There is very little assembly in the US. Simply adding in the plug-in components and connecting to the antenna.

The Librem 5 USA is different. It is fully assembled in the US. The PCBs are made in the US. Those are unique. But I still think their marketing is deceptive when they talk about “all electronics”.

Because if you think about it, who the hell else is trying? I can’t think of a single other company trying to get off the ground here.

With regard to devices like the Librem 14, there are several US companies doing similar. Like I said, there is nothing “US made” here. Compare with system76 and others.

With regard to the Librem 5 USA, Purism is different. I don’t put any value on that personally, but it’s the only phone (since the Moto X stopped being produced in the USA in 2014 or 2015) where the PCB is made in the USA.

What Purism can be applauded for is their commitment to FOSS hardware and their
FOSS upstreaming efforts to support it. For laptops, it’s not really any more than I see with system76 and others. With regard to the Librem 5 there are only a few others to compare with. While Pine64 is based in Hong Kong (it used to be based in CA), they have done just as much for FOSS phones and FOSS devices at least in terms of hardware. Like the Librem 5, though, it’s all made-in-china. But, again, I care mostly about FOSS compatible
hardware.

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I think the most significant factor in this case that is determining price is volume.

Obviously a complicated question, cutting across design, PCB assembly, other assembly, and components.

It is doubtful that anyone can buy a general purpose computer that is made entirely in just one country (even if we ignore raw materials). So it’s more about the percentage.

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Thanks for the review. Can’t wait for my Librem device!

Rather than faulting Purism, I think it’s important to appreciate how difficult it is to make a consumer electronic device in today’s world without relying on Chinese parts. The more I looked at the details of the Librem 5 USA, the more I came away thinking that it is a fairly good effort at making a device with components sourced from outside China, while trying to avoid runaway costs. How many other devices are out there making a comparable effort? I am not aware of any. Keep up the good work Purism!

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That’s only the Librem 5 USA and not the Librem 5 and Librem 14.

Why can’t I do both in regard to the Librem 5 USA?

Do I think it’s great that they are making their own PCBs and assembling it here? Yes. If anything it shows other manufacturers that there is a demand for such goods (although it was too niche to help with the sales of the Moto X).

Do I think that they are deceiving customers? Yes. The “source of parts” table that didn’t include most of the parts was deceptive. That is wrong. I think people were misled by the “all electronics will be made in our USA facility” statement. That is wrong.

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I agree with you. We can do both: appreciate what Purism gets right and call out what they do wrong.

Although this leads to another point in Purism’s favor. That is, many of the criticisms of Purism can surface only because of Purism’s relative openness. For example, we have this forum where we can ask questions and get clarification about their devices. When other companies make misleading claims (don’t think they don’t), we often have no way to dig in and get a clearer understanding. Purism is definitely not perfect, but even their flaws sometimes show something positive about the company because they came to light in the first place.

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Wrong or open to interpretation? (as it applies to the Librem 5 USA)

However all of this is a digression because the original post could be interpreted to say that the Librem 14 is made in the USA and that is not, I think, something that Purism itself is ever claiming.

The actual text in the original post is ambiguous.

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[Me] I think people were misled by the “all electronics will be made in our USA facility” statement.

You cut the " I think people were misled by …" off of my quote. I’ve put it back in, and stand by it.

Electronics = circuits or devices using transistors, microchips, and other components.

The SoC should count as “electronics”. It’s currently fabbed in Korea.

The cellular modem (Broadmobi) should count as “electronics”. It’s made in China.

The wifi/bt module (Redpine) should count as “electronics”. It’s made in India.

The LCD display is electronics. I believe it is made in China.

You can’t believe the number of people who think that Purism’s statement means that everything except for the case and, maybe, batteries are made in the USA. It’s deceptive. Purism has very recently (some time after March 28th, 2022) updated the text around the “Table of Origin” for some good clarification. Is it a coincidence that this chain started on March 28th 2022??? The text on March 28th, 2022 said:

[Edit: I was confused. There is a “Made in USA Electronics” section and a separate “Table of Origin” section. The explanatory text before the Table of Origin was added after June 3, 2021. I think the “Made in USA Electronics” is unchanged, but still deceptive. ]

Made in USA Electronics

The Librem 5 USA has the same features and look of the Librem 5 on the outside, but all the electronics will be made in our USA facility, and the entire phone will be Assembled in the USA, using the same manufacturing process we used for the Librem 5 devkits in 2018 and Librem Key made in the USA in 2019. By doing all electronics fabrication within the boundaries of our facility Purism can oversee each stage of the production. The Librem 5 USA exists alongside our regular Librem 5; it’s the same freedom you’ve grown to trust with Purism products, it’s the same operating system (PureOS), the same software, and the same privacy protections built in; the Librem 5 USA adds a highly controlled secure supply chain.

The text today reads

Table of Origin

The Librem 5 USA has Made in USA Electronics with all fabrication and manufacturing done at the Purism facility. Individual components used in fabrication are sourced direct from chip makers and parts distributors. We use US companies with US fabrication whenever possible. Most distributors are based in the US with the exception of large integrated circuits that are made in a variety of countries where those companies do fabrication (US, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan); an example is the NXP CPU we use from their fabrication in South Korea. While we source chips that are made in the US whenever possible, chip country of origin is not nearly as meaningful as country of board fabrication, especially when all chips are verified hardware circuits that are driven by free software in the kernel.

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All a digression though. Purism is not claiming that the Librem 14 laptop is made in the USA. Right? Maybe you could take the debate about the Librem 5 USA to a separate topic.

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I don’t think so. But, clearly, the OP was confused. It’s a Librem 14 review and they say:

There is a lot of chatter about the products being expensive. I disagree. They are made in the USA. What do you expect if your goods aren’t made by underpaid slave labor?

After some corrections, they later clarify that they had been told:

“Librem 14 parts come from all over the world, initial manufacture is done in factories in South-East Asia and final assembly in California, USA.”

I agree with that quote. But the OP seemed to be confused about what “final assembly” was all about. It’s about putting in the 3rd-party parts according to the order (RAM, SSD, wifi modem), testing it, and putting it in a box to ship. Which is also what is done with Dell, HP, and many other companies.

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There seems to be great concern about the OP being confused or the victim of bad business practices and deception. I want to thank you all for your concern. I’m just fine. As you know, because I’ve already stated it, I am very familiar with the difference between ‘made in’ and ‘assembled in’ and before buying the 14, I asked the company about location of production and was satisfied with the answer: “some assembly in USA”. And I have stated that I will take the company at their word on the 5 USA. In an effort to support a company attempting new things in a market almost entirely dominated by Asia, I purchased 2 items from them. The first item, I am typing on right now and I’m quite pleased. Being pleased with the product reminded me of the complete lack of real user reviews on the internet. Assuming there was a crowd out there who received their product and were happy with it, like I am, I posted something to encourage others to make even a 30 second video saying, “heres the box, let me open it, here’s a phone, it works. This is real”. In my post I gave a little backstory as to what led ME to buy the product. And said I wanted to support made in USA electronics. I was not aware of the level of exhaustive sticklerism on this forum (have to say, I’m not a internet forum type of guy) and need for repeated clarity. So again, I purchased from Purism to support USA made electronics. See, even if I buy a 14 made in Taiwan that has a little bit of post production assembly in the US, like the feet being screwed on, that’s already more than just opening a box stamped china in the Best Buy stockroom. And the support of the 14 should support the company which is making something called a Librem5USA which is being produced in the USA and has some USA electronics in it. After exhaustive research it appears to be the only telephone made in America. If anyone feels that that is a lie or disputes that, I highly recommend filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission who handles ‘country of origin’ issues. That ought to really get to the bottom of it. Meanwhile, having once again clarified my evidently controversial words, I’m outta here. Better things to do with my time than bicker with strangers on the ol interweb. My parting wish? May the internet break so we once again will need to go down the VFW Hall if a group needs to discuss something. Irvine? It’s your turn to bring the coffee.

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Thanks! I see you understand.

My concern stems from your initial post/review. It looked like you were confused about the Librem 14 — the review still contains the phrase that would seem to indicate that you think the Librem 14 was made in the USA:

[You] “I was disappointed in the lack of real reviews. There is a lot of chatter about the products being expensive. I disagree. They are made in the USA. … So I was ok with the cost. I received my Librem 14 promptly.”

I don’t want anybody, including people reading your review, to be deceived.

[You, above] See, even if I buy a 14 made in Taiwan that has a little bit of post production assembly in the US, like the feet being screwed on, that’s already more than just opening a box stamped china in the Best Buy stockroom.

Sure. I understand. But, of course, you should understand that several major laptop makers do “final assembly” in the US. HP business laptops (Elitebooks and, I think, Probooks) are assembled in the US. Lenovo Thinkpads for the US market are assembled in North Carolina. Aside: Dell used to do final assembly in the US for all of their products, but now I think they only do that for a subset of their desktop products.

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The last phone I bought was $2,000 so buying a Librem 5 for that much is basically me paying the same amount. Doesn’t really seem that expensive to me when the competition is the same cost.

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Looking at the war in Ukraine and the works of Ray Dalio, I get the impression that we, in the Western democracies, should urgently start pushing towards electronics made in the free democratic world.
My opinion is that China could easily stop this war if it wanted. If China threatens Russia with economic sanctions, Russia is absolutely gone. The whole game of Russia is that in case of western sanctions it is going to sell raw materials to China and buy ready goods back from China. Without EU, Japan, and China not even a Lada car (from the current portfolio) could be built or sold in Russia.
So China could in my opinion stop the war. But it chooses not to. It chooses not to support the West and the markets that made China possible. It chooses to save Putin’s a**. And this is deeply worrying for me.
We should stop buying cheep and move towards buying less goods but made under more responsible conditions.
The painful thing is that I doubt that this could happen volantarily. People love cheap goods. So state intervention will be needed for a large transition.

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Do you really want China to set that precedent? “Do as I think you should or you get nothing. Do it quickly or I raise prices.”

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I don’t get your point.
We are currently in a situation where most of the World (140 countries) is getting blackmailed by Russia just because they have nukes (under control of a mentally ill person), in a World where the UN is de facto incapacitated and totally helpless. China can stop the war and you would prefer that China does not stop the war? This just does not make any sence.
Yes countries do pressure other countries to behave. This is what we do with Russia at the moment. It will be definitively better if we succeed stopping Russia with economic pressure with the help of China than failing to do so without the help of China. Because if we fail with economic pressure, the day where we will need to use military force will come and the price will be much higher.

It gets too off-topic. My point was that in my opinion we need a shift towards goods made in free domocratic countries like the US, EU, Japan, and other in order to avoid placing dangerous unpredictable countries in too strong economic position which could let them believe that they could afford to start wars (like it happened with Russia).

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You can fork the topic with the icon at top left of the reply box (choices are: the default of Reply to topic, New message, Reply as linked topic ⇐ what you want).