WOW. Thank you ALL for so much support and guidance!! I’m so glad I found this community!!
I’m honestly a little overwhelmed with all the info provided so this might take me some time to process it. Like I said, I’m really not tech-savvy so I’m having to do research to even understand some of the “dumbed down” explanations, and as such, this is a slow process for me. I’m sure I’ll have more questions afterwards! lol
Thank you again to all who answered questions and provided additional resources! Definitely feeling this community!!
I see that the chart says AT&T works “using 3G.” Apparently AT&T is already phasing out 3G in my area (according to rude customer service agent, even though I pointed out that the letter I received from them said it would be shut down in 2022…). So it sounds like I wont be able to use the Librem 5 on AT&T at this point. @amarok , have you had a chance to test it on 4G since then? Or is it that Puri.sm has to update something in order for it to work on 4G?
Exactly! In order to use this as my primary phone, all I need is to be able to make/receive calls, texts, and be able to call 911 in an emergency. I’d also like to be able to send/receive photos via text (That’s MMS I guess?) and set alarms.
Are those things possible with Librem 5 at this stage?
As far as the battery goes, can it at least charge while its powered on now? If so, I can make that work even if battery life is still 2 hours by plugging it 90% of the time. If you have to turn it off to charge it AND the battery life is like 2 hours, I don’t know how to make that feasible.
(I have no problem waiting for the camera software, apps, or anything web-browsing wise to come out )
I’m trying to figure out an interim option as well. AT&T says the only non-smart phone they offer now is a flip phone ( Horrible even to me even as someone who has used a QWERTY keypad slider non-smart phone since they came out ). I REALLY hope I can find something better than a flip phone until I receive the L5. I dont trust myself/know enough to protect my privacy on a smart phone, so I keep it dumb LOL
I would LOVE to leave them out of spite! I do live in a major metropolitan area so it’s not a monopoly, all the main companies service this area, however, I don’t expect any of them to be any better. I have other services and family phone lines bundled with AT&T so its more to consider than a simple swap out for a different carrier. Plus I’ve had this number forever. I’m willing to switch if I can actually find something that has a distinct advantage though!
I wonder about the legality, too. I told the customer service rep how messed up it is to cut my service when I am still paying for it, however, she and her manager did not care. They said it is policy to turn off sim cards when it’s plugged into a non-approved device, even though the device is a AT&T unlocked copy of the same model I’ve been using for 6 years.
It seems like my issue with AT&T stems from their sim card telling them what phone I am using, and them rejecting it because its not on their “approved” phone list. It sounds like accessing AT&T through this Truphone SIM circumvents that issue entirely? I have NO idea how that works. When you use this, you are not technically a customer of AT&T, and they cannot harass you to comply with their BS? That part sounds fabulous. It seems like 0.09 cents per minute, text, MB seems like it would add up to being more expensive than regular plans for an average user - does that seem accurate? I’m not used to counting those things so I’d love to hear anyone else’s estimate. …would probably be cheaper than the AweSIM though! (love the idea…can’t afford the price.)
@amarok Thank you so much for your thorough and detailed response! I’m trying my best to understand all this new terminology so your explanations are really helpful!
Since AT&T’s 3G network is supposedly already being phased out in my area, it seems like using 3G on the Librem 5 will not be an option for me. Can the Librem work on 4G? If the BM818-A1 does not yet have VoLTE enabled, what does that mean for receiving service/signal? Does that mean I will be able to text and use data but not call (if relying on AT&T’s 4G in my area)?
I’m sorry, I’m sure some of these questions seem obvious to you all. This is just WAY deeper into this territory than I ever dreamed I’d be trying to dive. I’m a mental health professional; 99% of my brain cells are devoted to emotional intelligence and neurology, so I’m a total beginner with this!
Thank you!! I’ve been trying to look at alternatives and had not found those two yet, so thank you!
I’ve bookmarked the phones from Rob Braxman. I’m a little hesitant to buy anything from Google even if this guy has gutted it and put in a new OS. Is it risky to buy something from an individual who has gone that deep into a phone? It seems like you’d have to really trust him, because couldn’t he put his own trackers in there and steal your identity/money? Not saying to offend - I’m a novice to this stuff so I’m just wondering/genuinely asking.
The Pro1-X looks awesome - I loooove the QWERTY pad and am so glad some people are still producing those Aside from loving the hardware, I’m not really seeing anything about privacy on this one. It says you can design the phone how you want, so that’s great if you have the skills to do that, but I’m a noob and wouldn’t know how to ensure my own privacy without someone doing it for me. So I’m thinking that is not appropriate for me, even though I totally love the hardware.
Maybe I will just accept AT&T’s trash flip phone until I get the Librem It will help financially ~ buying the Librem will be 10 times more expensive than any phone I’ve ever purchased so it’s already a big reach for me, which I am only considering since I love what Purism is doing so much and feel better about my money going towards this movement. But its already more than what I should be spending, so buying another phone for the next 3-6mo before I can use the Librem should be kept to minimal costs. (I just dont know if I can stand texting on a flip phone for that long without smashing it to pieces >.>)
You wanted some translation, that’s way I asked about what do you hope a few months to mean…
Here is a personal opinion from the current vice-president of Purism:
If you pre-order now, don’t expect your phone to come earlier than 6 months. Purism knows that very well.
Also make sure you understand the current refund policy as well, before pre-ordering:
If you want to draw funds from any product that you: crowdfund, back, pre-order, early purchase, pre-purchase: when your pre-order is reached in the shipping queue you can decide whether to have it shipped or opt for some other option.
Translation: they don’t specify full refund anymore for pre-orders. Until now, there was a case where “some other option” meant vouchers to spent on their store.
Also, it seems they are changing their refund policy whenever they want, without notice, and applies it retroactively.
Other things you might not know: the phone is about 270 g heavy, it has no FCC certification yet (still after more than 3 months after the “big launch” in November). The price doesn’t include any taxes.
I was enthusiastic too. I’m not that anymore about Purism. Buy a PinePhone as an interim (out of stock now, may come back later this month or in April).
Thank you for believing in Purism, Purism also believes we deserve privacy and freedom.
I agree with you, none of the Android based devices like fxtec-pro or google pixels phones are not secure or have privacy even if use it with Lineage.
Wow, okay. Thank you, now I understand why you asked that. Yes, “a few” means something different to me (3 to 4). Thank you for providing their definition of a few. I’m still excited for the Librem 5, but it sounds like I’m going to need a better interim solution since it sounds like I’ll be waiting longer than I thought. I really appreciate you letting me know, because if I thought it was going to be a 3 month wait, I’d bare through using a stupid flip phone for the time being. If its more likely to be a 6+ month wait, I’m not going to torture myself for that long. I would have been very frustrated to end up using a flip phone that long while waiting - thank you for saving me from that frustration!!
I’m not sure what that note “using 3G” is referring to…some other user’s personal phone SIM card, maybe… (that wiki was created by a forum member, @amosbatto, so maybe he can clarify). In any case, the L5 does use 4G frequencies (as the modem page states), and yes, will use 4G for data (web browsing) whenever there is a 4G tower within range. When there is no 4G signal present, the data speed will drop to 3G (or even 2G if that’s all that is available).
However, the L5’s modem is not capable yet of handling your phone calls over the 4G data stream (i.e. VoLTE). It will drop to 3G to make and receive phone calls…which will be a problem once the 3G network sunsets happen.
As I said, we hope Purism will get the modem updated at some point to enable VoLTE, or a different modem will be found for the North America market.
Edit: Note that the L5’s modem is user-swappable, a unique feature, and although that’s a delicate operation, it enables you to add a better modem in the future if one comes along.
The L5 does calls, texts, and data, but not yet MMS (it’s coming soon, though).
Data is at 4G speed wherever there is a 4G signal.
Once 3G for a given network doesn’t exist anymore, the current modem for North America will not be able to make or receive phone calls, unless the modem’s firmware gets updated to enable VoLTE (Voice over LTE 4G datastream).
I’m not sure what will happen with 911 capability with this modem, based on the above.
The L5 has an alarm clock function, and many other useful applications and utilities.
The L5 can be used while it’s charging. You can even buy an extra battery from Purism and swap the battery out while the phone is plugged in and running.
You don’t have to use AT&T itself. You can use the AT&T network by getting your service from a reseller/wholesaler that operates on AT&T’s network…usually cheaper, too. I cited Truphone international prepaid SIM simply because I already had their SIM (for travel purposes). You could equally use, say, Red Pocket Mobile (currently $10/month for unlimited talk/text and 1GB of 4G data), or any other reseller/wholesaler (MVNO - Mobile Virtual Network Operator).
It will be difficult to find a phone with a physical QWERTY keyboard these days. You may have to settle for virtual QWERTY, ie. on-screen…but they’re both in QWERTY layout.
Some MVNOs sell phones and some don’t, but they all allow you to bring your own device to activate. That device usually has to be an “unlocked” device, i.e. not carrier-branded or carrier-locked. You can find many unlocked phones for sale on Amazon or Ebay, or in Best Buy, etc. Remember it must be VoLTE-capable on the network you choose to use, or else it will soon be useless in the US.
When you change network providers, you never have to give up your phone number. You can “port” it to the new carrier. It takes a few minutes, hours, or up to a day or two to complete.
Some MVNOs also have family plans, but if they don’t, you may find that the cost for each individual line still adds up to less than AT&T charges.
The US networks are shutting down 3G nationwide (apparently area by area). Once that is complete, no connection over 3G will be possible at all (because 3G will cease to exist). That’s why they’ve started to disallow phones that are not at least 4G-capable. Also, a 4G (for data) phone will eventually be unable to make or receive phone calls if it is not also VoLTE-capable. (Nearly all new-ish phones are VoLTE-capable now.)
If you buy a cheap unlocked Android phone (i.e. not carrier-branded), in its settings you can disable many of the pre-installed apps that are known to abuse your privacy, like Facebook, and even the Google suite of apps. You can also use an Android without even creating an account with Google. This isn’t perfect privacy, but it’s a good start. There are other safe places to get apps you might want to use, besides Google’s store.
Rob Braxman is a well-known privacy advocate, and his public reputation and business would be ruined if he did something evil like that. Braxman isn’t doing anything special. He is just taking the LineageOS image that you can find on the xda-developers forum or LineageOS web site for the Google Pixel and installing it. I have been doing the same thing on my phones for the last 6 years. I just recommended using Braxman’s service, because you said that you don’t have much technical knowledge, so you may not want to install LineageOS yourself, but it honestly isn’t that hard if you are using one of the phones that is officially supported by LineageOS, because the web site has very clear instructions. However, if you buy a used phone to install LineageOS, make sure to buy a model that allows you to unlock the bootloader, which generally means avoiding any model that was originally sold by Verizon or AT&T.
If you select LineageOS or Ubuntu Touch when you order the Pro1-X, then you are getting a privacy phone. LineageOS can’t legally include the Google Play Store or any of Google’s proprietary software. Just install the F-Droid repository and use that to install your apps. Read the description provided by F-Droid for each app, because it will tell you if the app does any data collection. If you select Ubuntu Touch when ordering, then your app store will be https://open-store.io/, which is also pretty safe.
dylanlesterpvcs 12 says that he only tested 3G on AT&T. He didn’t test 4G, but there are three other people who have tested 4G on the AT&T network through MVNOs.
Some people have reported with other carriers (like T-Mobile) that they were able to activate their SIM card using an “approved” phone, and then they put the activated SIM card into the Librem 5 and it worked.
Yes, the Librem 5 can work on 4G. However, the BM818-A1 modem currently lacks the VoLTE configuration for many carriers (it sounds like Purism is working on software to fix this). If you get a phone call with the BM818-A1, you can answer the call, but your internet connection (i.e. data) will switch to 3G or 2G. If the BM818-A1 can’t find find any available 3G or 2G networks for data, then you won’t have an internet connection while making a phone call, which isn’t that big of a deal in my opinion.
Thank you for helping me understand all these options! This is helping me make sense of all of this!! It does sound like MVNO would be really helpful. In fact…I’m wondering if my current 3G phone would work on an MVNO that uses AT&T’s network, since I can clearly see that I still get 3G signal (despite AT&T trying to convince me otherwise)…at least until 3G is actually gone from my area. Then again, my phone is carrier-locked. At this point, I’m just trying to find something to tie me over until Librem or Pro1-X can actually ship, and those MVNOs sound pretty affordable, especially if I can port my phone number to take it with me.
Awesome! I will keep an eye out for Pro1-X, then. They mentioned on that page something about a previous version being very successful, but I can’t find a previous version anywhere. Is there an older one available for shipping now?
If you get impatient, I recently purchased an unlocked pixel 4a and put CalyxOS on it. Easiest install I’ve ever done, the program holds your hand the entire time. I’ve been very pleased with the result. Being able to deny network access to any app is pretty awesome. Additionally, it comes with F-Droid (FOSS software) and Aurora (google play store substitute, it sets you up with a throwaway account so you can still download stuff) if there are apps you need but can’t find on F-Droid (like a good camera). All in all, pretty outstanding experience, especially for the price (<$350 for a 128GB phone).
Thanks for the suggestion and explanation! Would CalyxOS work on another phone? I really dont trust Google anything. To be honest, I’m not confident in my ability to install any OS but I’m running out of options. Every privacy-oriented phone I see is either still in production/out-of-stock or wont work in the US, and service to my current 3G phone is going to be cut in a couple days.
The F(x)tec Pro1, based on the Snapdragon 835, is no longer in stock, and you will have to manually install LineageOS or Ubuntu Touch on it.
LineageOS and CalyxOS are derivatives of the Android Open Source Project, which is basically the open source code in normal Android with all the proprietary spyware stripped out.
I can understand wanting to boycott Google, but if the OS is replaced, I highly doubt that Google has spyware built into the hardware. If they did, someone would have detected it by now in the network traffic. If you want to avoid the Pixel, you can buy a used OnePlus or any of the other phones on the LineageOS web site.
However, I recommend buying a SIM card from an MVNO that uses the T-Mobile or AT&T network and seeing if it works on your existing phone. If it works, then transfer your existing cell number to that MVNO.
One Xiaomi phone, but I would trust that even less. I totally understand your trepidation with using a google-branded phone, but as @amosbatto said, the software is being replaced and aside from the word “google” there’s no reason to believe the hardware is doing its own reconnaissance, much less is there evidence of it.
But see which you like best, and if you decide to give it a go and someone here has done it before, I’m sure they’d be happy to assist you. Flashing a ROM is a bit scary, but if you don’t rush and follow the steps carefully you’ll be fine.
It’s really encouraging to see people from non-technical backgrounds voting with their wallets over online privacy. I guess that if you use your phone for work, in your field that involves dealing with some highly sensitive, personal information. Just the kind of thing that you don’t want getting sucked into online profiling by big tech companies that are always pushing the envelope when it comes to privacy. (Google isn’t the only one of course, there are plenty of others who aren’t household names.)
I hope that you find a solution that works well for you, and that you keep posting here about how easy or hard you find it. Feedback from non-specialist early-adopters like you is always of interest.
)
Horrible even to me even as someone who has used a QWERTY keypad slider non-smart phone since they came out 
). I REALLY hope I can find something better than a flip phone until I receive the L5. I dont trust myself/know enough to protect my privacy on a smart phone, so I keep it dumb 
LOL
