Questions about Librem 5


#1

Im really having enough of that fucking apple crap.
The way they collect and store data and infantilize the users.
I do not want to take this anymore.

Im looking for a phone that does not send all my files and activities
to servers from the manufacturers.

Apple is just ridiculous.
They make it very hard to get rid of data. even after a complete reset of the phone.
they try to roll stuff back, from as it seems different sources.
I cleaned my icloud but they recovered my contacts and browser history - after a full phone reset - anyway.

I want to get rid of that crap.

Im not needing all that fancy apps that helps you shit.
Im mainly using SMS, Phone, Browser and Email. Sometimes Navigation.
If i really have to use Facebook or something i think this will also work Web Based.
So i think Librem 5 should offer everything i want.
Also i see there is a bundle with a nice Display, Keyboard and Mouse. I think this is what i would go for.

I have 3 Questions.

Will this work out of the Box?
I am no Linux Expert so i would like to have something that just works.
Or would you suggest me to wait a little longer, because its not stable by now?

Well i want to be in total control of the flow of information. Like Librem 5 promises.
So there are Hardware Kill Switches for camera, microphone, WiFi/Bluetooth, and baseband.
(Baseband means Mobilfunk/Mobil Network i guess?)

But what about GPS.
I read the GPS is fully passive so it wont send any data, so nobody can locate me, right?

So basically: if I do not allow there wont be any data of any kind send out right?
So i can be totally anonymous if i want, right?

And of course Librem wont collect and store any data, right?


#2

If you are sick of the surveillance capitalists, Apple and Google, then you have come to the right place.

If you order right now then you won’t get the phone for quite some time anyway and by that time I expect it to be stable for non-expert users (but that is a prediction about the future).

There are three hardware kill switches. One for cameras(2) and microphone; one for WiFi and Bluetooth; and one for baseband (the component that connects the phone to the mobile phone network).

If all three switches are off then it will additionally disable a number of the sensors and also disable the GPS.

Yes, GPS only receives. But see previous about disabling the GPS anyway.

Ah, well, that’s a bigger claim. :slight_smile: I don’t know what it’s like in your country but in mine there are a mass of surveillance cameras and there may be other means for “them” to locate you (e.g. tolling device for travelling on freeway, use of ATM or payment mechanism, various NFC cards such as for public transport).

Society is awash with mechanisms to locate / track you.

Again, a bigger claim. I think the goal is that if you use all three kill switches and you are still not anonymous then it is not the fault of your phone.

That would be the expectation (assuming that you don’t subscribe to any of the optional services and even then Purism aims to put privacy front and centre).

One of the benefits of open source is that you are not forced to “trust”. You can “trust but verify” - or at least someone else can verify on your behalf that the phone is not collecting any unexpected information and that the phone is not transmitting any unexpected information.


#3

Regarding 3, purism won’t collect and store any data. The librem 5 should collect and store lots of data, but only data you want it to store, and assorted incidental data. Things like photos you take are data, and you probably want them stored. Do note that its internal flash storage is unlikely to implement secure delete, which means fragments of deleted data will hang around for indeterminate time after deletion.

The difference is that the L5 isn’t trying to monetize the data it collects on behalf of someone not you.


#4

That’s basically what I meant by “unexpected”.

As far as secure delete goes, it remains to be seen whether there is TRIM support on the eMMC drive. However even that is not guaranteed delete for typical solid state storage devices.


#5

If you are using a cellular modem, the company providing the cellular network can track you and collect your geolocation data. See:


Cellular providers keep records of phone calls and many of them are willing to sell that information to governments. See:

Google has created a map of all the Wi-Fi networks, and can use that information to figure out where you are located, even if you have turned off the GPS. See: How Google Uses Wi-Fi Networks to Figure Out Your Exact Location

My recommendation is to never use a Google service if you don’t want to be tracked. You can check what information Google knows about you here:
https://myactivity.google.com/more-activity


#6

The key is to move away from using any cloud-based application, unless you own the server and can physically wipe it clean any time you want to. Easier said than done. Next, avoid using any application that requires you to click on a lengthy agreement that is too long to reasonably read. They know you won’t read it. You just waive any rights you have and both sides know it. There should only be a few agreements like something authored by the free software foundation. These agreements that no one reads should be made void by the courts. If there must be a lengthy agreement, it should be made difficult for Google (or whoever’s else imposes it) to change. It should only be changeable on rare occasions and new agreements should never present themselves when you go to use the application, after the first time. The inconvenience factors should be the burden of the one who imposes the agreement, not on the users. I would rather pay a fee to use the software or service, then to waive my rights routinely.


#7

Thanks for your replys.
Seems that the Librem 5 is exactly what i want. :slight_smile:

Well i do not use any cloud normally but as far as i know you be forced to use the cloud in order to use the iphone. :smiley: Another great thing about apple.

But shit like that seems to become the future. I am still on Windows 7 on my Desktop, but support will be running out soon so i will have to move to another OS at that time.
But Windows 10? Dont know, maybe with a lot of tweaking/customizing.
I do not want that Cloud, Apps, Cortana and alerts “do you really want to do this, man?” and the like.

Why they cant simply come up with a REAL pro version like back in the days with ME and 2000.


#8

buy a domain, configure a router at home with wrt, configure MX for the domain, use a non-brand new computer at home, install a debian LTS server on the PC, install nextcloud, install letsencrypt, install fail2ban, install firewall, buy Librem, configure on librem personal account nextcloud. Finished.
There are lots of guides on the internet


#9

Calling ME pro :joy: I guess memory fades fast

Luckily there is wikipedia to refresh our memories:

Windows Me was heavily panned by many users and critics, mainly due to stability issues. Due to its many bugs and glitches, Windows Me is considered one of the worst operating systems of all time


#10

I liked windows vista !!! NOW WHAT !?


#11

No i mean ME was the Consumer Version and 2000 the Professional Version.


#12

Have you no shame ???
Bring your guns and meet me at noon at O.K. Corral !!!


#13

ME was the last of the 9X “OS’s” that were more appropriately applications that ran on DOS. 2000 was a follow-up to NT 4.0 (IIRC 2000 showed the version as 4.5 but my memory is a bit fuzzy on the exact number).

Point is ME wasn’t just as consumer OS it was a completely different OS on a completely different base as the successor to 98 and not NT based at all (when comparing it to 2000).


#14

I know but NT was always the Professional Version and the DOS crap for the consumer.
Windows 10 is still NT but messed up with Apps, Cortana and a bunch of other crap.

I mean thats maybe okay for the regular user but why cant they simply release a real pro Version without all that crap.


#15

I read some rumors that Windows is going to switch to Linux kernel because NT never was stable. :-).

Well, well, soon Librem 5 is mainstream and Microsoft is trying to buy Purism … A crazy world. What shall we do then ?


#16

Interesting - any links or news stories about this?


#17

That was nothing more than a delusion.


#18

I am afraid it is pure speculation. I read it in the Swedish Techworld (written by Lars Dobod) but it is in Swedish. I put the link here

if someone can read Swedish.

Funny idea though …


#19

Brought to you by Google translate
Some good use of their services :slight_smile:
From the swedish article shared above:

"One thought has begun to creep in - what if Microsoft decided to switch the NT kernel in Windows 10 to the Linux kernel? Could it be possible that Windows 11 (given the naming convention) will build on Linux?

Given that the graphical interface would continue to look much like it does today, users would hardly notice any difference, except that it is not entirely insignificant that the operating system should be perceived as both faster and, above all, more stable. Now Windows 10 is considerably more stable than older versions, but relative to Linux it is still a bit left.

Another not entirely unimportant advantage would be that the security of the operating system would probably increase by a magnitude or two. Again, Windows 10 is good, light years better than older versions, but firstly, most threats to Windows develop - simply because it is the biggest - and secondly, it would mean that many of the criminal hackers would have to retrain , and they would definitely have a harder nut to crack.

The NT kernel in Windows seems to have deep structural problems. This is not least noticeable in connection with these constantly updating updates. For us in IT media, it’s a cornucopia; It is grateful news to write about and it is popular with readers, but it may not be very fun for Microsoft to constantly have to back up updates, bug fixes create new bugs, and have to take the criticism it rightfully gives rise to. To top it all, it has to be very expensive.

Microsoft also does not want you to run Windows on a classic local PC; Microsoft would prefer you to run virtual desktops on Azure along with cloud applications such as Office 365. A strong contributing factor to this is the endless myriad of different hardware variants that the operating system must support, which is probably the most important reason for the updates not working as they should.

Microsoft also stands for perhaps the most unexpected and radical change in IT history - who could think of Steve Ballmer’s time that Microsoft would start not only accept Linux, but really like Linux. Current CEO Satya Nadella’s now classic “Microsoft loves Linux” seems to be true and honest in every way.

That Nadella is serious is not least noticeable in practice. By far the most common operating system on Azure is Linux, Microsoft has released upwards of 50,000 patents free, they have bought and integrated with Github (hello, we are talking Github!) And Microsoft is contributing a lot of open source and supporting a plethora of open source projects. Microsoft is even contributing to the Linux kernel, though the contribution is small compared to Red Hats, Intel, IBMs and others. But in general, Microsoft is contributing, by itself or through support to others, with lots of open source.

If Windows 11 switched to Linux, Microsoft would not have to be entirely responsible for the development and maintenance of the core of Windows, and take the entire cost, but of course contribute more to the development, for purely selfish reasons unless otherwise.

But wait, it’s not possible to run Windows applications on Linux. True. Or not, it depends. Crossover and Wine are two long-standing emulators, and they seem to work reasonably well, but not well enough. On the other hand, it should not be forgotten that the developers of Wine and Crossover do not have access to all the monkeys and system calls that of course the developers of Microsoft have. An emulator developed with full access to the code would work much better. Microsoft would probably develop a virtual machine on which Windows applications could work just as before, but at the same time do everything they can to port applications as quickly as possible.

In fact, Microsoft has already started moving this way with the Windows Subsystem for Linux, WSL (now WSL 2). With WSL, Microsoft has started to build a system where they map Linux api and system calls to Windows, and vice versa. The first version of WSL meant that Microsoft linked Windows built-in libraries and programs with Linux, and with WSL 2, Microsoft has taken the step fully and created its own, customized Linux kernel. Thus, Windows already comes with its own Linux kernel which, it seems, works as a glove with Windows.

So, really, what would be the next step? Well, to build Windows on Linux. I put my 10 cents on it."


#20

In around 1998, I came across what appeared at first look, to be an official Microsoft website. But at closer look, it was intended to be a comedy piece. It was hilarious and was offering a new Microsoft product called Ms-Linux. There were several (apparent) reviews from several leaders in the industry, all raving about how great it was in ways that were comicly unique to their respective roles on the industry. All the review from (supposed) Linus Tarvolds said was “They want me to be a whore”. That website disappeared a few days after I found it. But that made me wonder if Microsoft might ever pollute Linux with their closed-source products. I don’t know if anyone could stop them if they did.