Shipping within the EU from Germany?

As I see it the only way to avoid paying VAT is to have a VAT number registered in the EU VAT database. I had some problems (solved) because the seller could not find my VAT number. The seller can leave the VAT unpaid only if they find your VAT number in the EU database - else they have to pay the VAT to their government.

This is in at @Quarnero post.

Between the EU countries no VAT, even if the VAT is not same.

The payable VAT is depend on the point (country) when the product is appear.
This appear is not the shore where the freight ship is coming.
This appear is when the containers is proceed at the local post/customer officers.

If the sealed container is opening in Budapest (Hungary), the VAT will be 27%.

If the sealed container is opening in Hamburg (Germany), the VAT will be 19%, and this case, the items is transferable without any plus VAT from Germany to Hungary. :slight_smile:

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I don’t know about containers but when I’m purchasing in germany eShops they charge me with my country’s VAT (which is higher). It’s being automatically recalculated during checkout after shipping address is confirmed.

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Is this some kind of funny joke? I am sure that “your eShops” having nothing to do with Germany and that goods that you are buying from “Germany” were never produced in Germany or otherwise legally entered German territory, meaning/simplifying those eShops are not having permanent stock of finished goods in Germany, period. Please prove that I am wrong, I don’t mind, if you know better. And, please read what you wrote: “you are paying VAT that is more than 19% in Germany … to German bank IBAN”. This is ridiculous.


lol, it’s :slight_smile: You are welcome
P.S. and yes I’m always paying 21% as on so on other german eShops.


This is called Amazon’s Tax Calculation Service and as such is not replacement for the country particular EU VAT rate that each customer needs to pay on top of the ordered product or service.

As I’ve mentioned it’s not specific to amazon, it’s common thing with any other eshop. I can screen the invoice if that is so hard to believe :slight_smile:

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This is new to me. I have always paid the VAT of the origin country (19 % buying from Germany) except for when I use my VAT number in which case I pay no VAT at all. The system works so that I should pay VAT of my own country - but if I can deduct it in the tax declaration I pay nothing at all (i.e. I pay 24 % and then deduct 24 %). There is however some mechanism for handling VAT between countries - but I do not know how it works.

@nhu :
You have made it very clear by now you have a VAT number and therefore you don’t have to pay VAT grosso modo. We get it and I’m happy for you that you are one of the lucky few to be able to get your L5 at the listed price VAT excluded. However that does not apply to the majority of backers/customers in here. Based on my own experience @ruff is right. The (unforeseen) VAT and custom/carrier fees on top of the initial price still is a problem. Not only to the backers who have to pay for it (with % that are not regulated in the supposedly Schengen countries/EU) as well as the total price point the L5 will be for potential customers, nearing €1K, not a competitive pricing in the overcrowded market of (flagship) smartphones.

Sorry that I have a VAT number. But when I buy as a consumer without VAT number there are differences in the handling of VAT after January 2019. I quote:

"If your business stays below €10,000 in cross-border sales of digital goods per year, throughout the EU, then you can charge the VAT rate of your home country on all those cross-border sales. This makes it much easier to comply with VAT, because you’re only using one tax rate on your digital goods. "

As I read it a German business with low EU sales can use German VAT when selling across the borders of EU from January 2019. Bigger sellers however have to use the VAT rate of the receivers country.

A often buy things from Aliexpress, and when the customer office intercept the package, and the price is bigger than 20 EUR, then i need to pay 27% VAT + handling fee.

But, i was bought a expensive things (3-400 USD) from EU, once from the and once from a UK webshop. The sender firm was EU firm, and the sender country is EU country, all two case.
The items (photo lenses, Panasonic 100-300 and a Mitakon 25) is not a small enveloped items, the officers immediatly can decide: this is expensive, need-to-charge items.

But, i was not pay VAT in these cases.

You do not pay VAT, you only pay VAT difference (or rather yo do pay VAT but VAT is recalculated so you only see difference, unless the company falls into exception mentioned above). IE has 23, HU has 27, so the diff will be 4% which you might have considered to be a shipping fee. Reverse also applies, if your home country has lower VAT than shop VAT - you’ll pay less than list price.


Ohh! I was not known this.
Thank you! :slight_smile:

Like before, terms B2B and B2C I will leave here again as self-explanatory. Yet if you @ruff insist that eShop and Shop are the same thing, next time you visit me I’ll order pizza and soft drinks for you over (and pay for that container on my door steps so you don’t have to wait long) or any other eShop as you call those with some specific/political purpose here! What I’ve learned by now from my lifestyle, is that any Shop having its open times, is something where customer can enter it freely (which doesn’t apply to Amazon) because it is having the entrance door of its own and to all known address, including street and house number, and is as such registered within particular country.
And, all of I wrote here in this post is not covering 1% of what Purism CEO @nicole.faerber already clearly and undoubtedly wrote about Purism Shop within EU other than to suggest to make this lucidity clear to all by registering Purism Germany (and not Purism for EU), with all of the details what such entity offers and what they do.

Anyway and if this happens from batch Evergreen or so, it will be stationed in Germany only, and the rest is by law already regulated. To be honest I need to ask myself why I made any of my reply here as my VAT will be 19% anyway other than to help with the questions like @Ylegreg is having.
Ok, ruff, may be that you won the first round of applause here, but for what purpose otherwise than being a “common thing” as you wrote, are you trying to suggest that buying over Amazon is without any privacy issues or is there something else that Purism should learn from you?

P.S. I already wrote what is I my biggest dream here: "If any day soon open source products get small percentage of VAT that would be bright and intelligent authorities decision.” For example, in Germany is reduced VAT rate of 7% for books (excluding e-books and books whose content is harmful to minors), for writers and composers … it would be nice to have such benefits for open source software developers too, but this is somehow out of subject here, isn’t it.

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I still don’t understand your ranting - I’ve made electronic purchase, not in a brick shop, same as on amazon. It was not even marked as a backing - a proper pre-order.
I feel there’s certain misunderstanding however i cannot understand which point you are trying to prove to me.

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I once had a book go half way around the world that was shipped from California before getting to me in Canada. The company they were using to ship European orders was Asendia who had very good customer service who never once giggled :slight_smile: Apparently they specialize in sorting all the vat, etc. etc. Might be an easier solution (?)

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Good point, thanks! In addition, there are Free Ecommerce Country Reports, etc. It is certainly useful for any B2C on how to reach customer (not more and not less). And “the Ecommerce Europe Trustmark stimulates cross-border e-commerce through better protection for consumers and merchants by establishing one European set of rules and by ensuring clear communication of these rules.”

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Nager IT sells it’s mouses for 7% of VAT in Germany. The reason is they are a registered association (eingetragener Verein).


I asked them on Twitter:

@maximilian, if it is about chronology, above “very update” is known since mid February 2019:

Probably it serves to some kind of purpose (unknown to me), but I don’t see there is mentioned/brought (through courier) something (officially) new to it.