Shipping within the EU from Germany?


#101

I have canceled and hope to quickly get my money back, so I’m out of the number.


#102

BTW, you also read and agreed to those “ridiculous” specs, you were even okay with a less powerful i.MX6 CPU.
All specs were kept, quite a few have been upgraded: CPU, larger screen, hi-res cams (13MP were not promised), an RGB LED (not promised), lock down mode (not promised), smart card reader (not promised), 5+ modem options (not promised)
That’s actually ridiculous. In a good way :crazy_face:

Lol. Not in the US. Rarely across borders.

So what? Maybe your right. I don’t care if I get mine a few weeks later. I really wonder why you invested in a project if you think they should hurry instead of making it right.


#103

https://www.zoll.de/DE/Home/home_node.html

Do you know why these people exist?
Do you know why there is a “Duty free” shop at airports?
That’s not a Purism thing… This is how our world economy works…


#104

It is …ordered stuff from the US. Had to order it twice as PostNord failed to notive me of arrivel. It was sent back … so got 1 delivery, had to pay 2 custums. Also had problems with an express letter which the did not deliver although it was recommended. Had to spend a flight and a hotel night to get teh visum for India. PostNord are totally worthless when they are at their best. :-/


#105

That’s never the case, here in US.
All sales are posted with a price to which depending on the state [you order it from] adds taxes to it. Each state has a different tax. It’s making the process easier for everyone.


#106


@nicole.faerber This was from the original crowdfunding site.
And now I’m apparently going to pay import tax (140$) + fee (25$) to get my phone.
That is 165$ + 599$ = 764$. This is for Denmark.


#107

Are you sure there are import taxes for a smartphone from the USA?
I think you only have to pay VAT, like for shipping from Germany. The only difference is the 25$ fee.


#108

VAT (value added tax) is what I should have written. It is still a tax payed when importing :wink:
In Denmark its 25% of the value - what I payed 599$. And on top of that is a 25$ fee. If I told somebody in Denmark I would sell them something and send it from Germany, they would know that we have open borders with free movement of goods in (most of) Europe. And never expect a bill from customs.
Will US citizens have to pay VAT on top of the phone prize?


#109

Yes, but that’s just a difference in declaration.
In Europe, prices are usually declared including taxes, but in the US without.
So, there’s no difference in handling, just in expectation. US citizens knew there will be VAT added on top, and for some Europeans that is unexpected.

If you think about it, shipping worldwide, it makes sense that the priced does not include the VAT, as it differs a lot depending on the destination.


#110

That makes sense. But still if you think about it, why would anybody tell europeans that the phone will ship from Germany? I dont care where my order is shipped from, when there is free shipping. Do they assemble the phone in Germany? No. Then why would any european care about them shipping from Germany. In my opinion it is not good practice to use Germany as a selling point, if that has absolutely no influece on anything.
Just a broke dude, beeing frustrated.


#111

I understand.
If you have a look at the Librem 5 — Promise Delivery Chart, you’ll notice that this is one of the few missed promises, but in progress.
In the source I linked there, Nicole argues that Germany would indeed make sense for you, as the VAT (~ import tax US->Germany) is lower there (19%).

:thinking: If you’re lucky, and they get it going before your batch ships, maybe you’ll have to pay a few bucks less? (19% vs 25%)


#112

If VAT is not payed from the 599$, then why should I choose to pay to Germany. Im broke, 19% or 25% is still money I didn’t expect to pay. And I love the welfarestate in Denmark, so I’d rather pay the last 6% for welfare. I have german family, and should keep politics out of this forum… so i’ll stop here.


#113

It wouldn’t be your choise. In the eu there is an exeption for small business that they can pay the vat in their home county (e.g. purism reseller in germany) even if the customer (you) is in another eu country. This is to keep the tax overhead acceptable for small businesses. Bigger companies need to pay taxes according to customer location.

In that scenario it would be the purism reseller which would collect the vat from you as they paid it on import. If it comes form the us it is the customs office.

On the declared prices it is as others said.
Most europeans are just so used to the display of “599 inc vat” that they just overlook the missing “incl vat”.
In the eu you would see that only in B2B shops where it is common to display prices excl vat.

My personal opinion is that purism
could have done a better job on making this clear to international buyers. Especially as their team has quiet some European members. But that is never the less just a matter of consumer friendliness.


#114

I will not pay any fee (25$ whatsoever) only vat. They clearly said that they will ship from Germany.


#115

So much speculation… It would be nice, if someone from Germany could simply post here, what he have paid alltogether, when he got his Librem5 finally.
That should not last any longer so long now.


#116

It’s not speculation. The customs office charges you 19%.


#117

I do not think US customers will pay a cent more than the 599. L5 is not a buy at the local store (in which case there would be tax added). It is mail order. I do not think tax applies.

So Europeans are right complaining. And I want to complain too. The promise was 599 and shipping from Germany. Now we have to pay much more (VAT plus handling the item at the customs office by the courier).

Actually there is something more. The package to us in Europe must have the receipt (or copy of it) on the outside of the parcel. If there is not such receipt the customs (at least in Greece) they ask you to email them the receipt of payment AND the web page from where it was ordered that includes the price paid.

Since such a web page does not exist anymore (the price has gone up) I will have to pay tax based on the higher current price.

Purism should be very careful about this issue.
How to tell them? Anybody from support reading?


#118

Shipping within the Eu is really welcome because as customer it’s easier deal with purism/courier than customs, so i really hope purism will accomplish this promise too


#119

Your thought would be mostly wrong.

Each US customer will pay their local sales TAX.

For myself this TAX was actually included at checkout which is likely because most payment systems handle this automatically.

I do not know why VAT was not collected at time of purchase as that is outside my scope of knowledge, though I suspect there is good reason for this.

I said mostly wrong as there are some states that do not have a sales tax, though I don’t know for certain how that affects online purchases from out of state as that’s typically a separate tax at the same rate as sales tax. It may be that there are some customers who don’t have any taxes applied because where they live doesn’t tax this kind of purchase but they would be the exception not the rule.


#120

since we are neighbours i am concerned about this as well especially since for me it’s not just one L5 but more.

what are Purisms thoughs on this matter ?