Shipping within the EU from Germany?

Yes, the process is fast and easy (all done with telecommunications - don’t even require id - they are happy as long as they get their money) - but expensive.

I have to pay a Customs processing fee - and a fee to the transport (courier) company who effectively acts as my agent and deals with the mindless bureaucracy of Customs on my behalf.

Hopefully I will have the pleasure of paying those fees on the Librem 5 “real soon now”.

I always understood that all three fees (i.e. including the “VAT”) were on top of the headline price payable to Purism.

I never expected Purism to have the knowledge (at this stage) of 200 countries’ import systems and rules. I certainly never expected Purism to write a blank cheque and cover whatever extortionate fees apply to get equipment across the border. However I have imported equipment quite a few times before, so my expectations may have differed from those of others.

I was given the choice of handling customs through the courier or handling it myself. I chose to do it myself and did not regret it - it was easy and I did not have to pay anything but the customs fee. Of course I also had to pay VAT but I will get that back because I have a VAT number.

Anyway I much prefer shipping from Germany (as it seems to be) - that is really hasslefree.

What you describe is possible only if you live close to a “point of entry”. I live on a Greek island. The point of entry is Athens. There is no way I can handle the customs procedure myself, as I have to get to Athens. So it is definitely much much better if L5 gets shipped from within EU. Customs must be avoided.

Now what if Purism does not find a way to do it. In that case I would ask @nicole.faerber to use USPS and not companies such as DHL (terrible service). USPS cooperates with all countries official post service and customs handling is free. You only pay the tax.

I once ordered a battery (it was a special form battery) from US. A 34 USD value. DHL called me from Athens and they told me I had to pay the tax plus 100 euros for handling the customs procedure. I was essentially forced to abandon the package.

So @nicole.faerber if you do not succeed in shipping L5 within EU, please at least use USPS.


One more addition: if USPS is more expensive than DHL (or any other courier) I prefer to pay to purism the difference than having to pay way much more to the courier for the customs paperwork.

1 Like

The local handling obviously is pretty different fro country to country. In Germany e.g. DHL Express delivers to your door step and handles customs but for a comparably low price, whereas Deutsche Post will drop it at the next local customs office (which there are many, not only at the point of entry) and customers must collect the package from there - saving the handling fee but having to go there and pay the VAT local. Other carriers like FedEx handle everything and are super fast but are even more expensive in most areas.

Before we roll out the phones we have to do a survey with all customers anyway concerning which modem type they want to have, eventual additional accessories etc. Then we then can also arrange for choosing the carrier - USPS (regular postal service), DHL Express or FedEx (Ground or Express, depending on destination). I will bring this up with our OPS team.



It is not only different which transport company you choose but also to which country you deliver. For example here in Finland DHL is pretty good because the local distributor is good. The post office is sometimes slow but fairly reliable. At all cost Postnord (Sweden-Denmark) must be avoided - it simply is a disaster. Unfortunately one of my parcels left Germany with a decent transporter but it was then transferred to Postnord in Malmö and it took weeks for them to deliver it. The delivery system is nowadays a mess - you never know which one you can trust (more expensive is not always better).

1 Like

@nicole.faerber if you have to ask to all your customers the modem type, accessories (can you share yet what kind of accessories we can buy before shipping?) and carrier, i suggest to avoid asking it with mail, otherwise you will be full of them with a lot of questions before the choice you need.
I suggest you to prepare a personalized link with form to fullfill with a description like:
modem: modem a (fit better for eu) modem b (fit for us) modem c (for the rest of the world) or the link someone shared with the frequency of the carrier and the details of mobile isp
carrier: usps/dhl no additional cost, fedex + xx €/$

etc etc, so every customer will make their choice and you will receive it and just apply what we wrote

dunno if someone have a better idea, but i think this is better instead mail each customer


or just have that form on the order page - still an email notification is probably required


My bad experience was a DHL shipment from the US to the UK, which got transferred to the Royal Mail upon entry to the UK, after which I think it took about two weeks to go through their system.

Well, I do not really care about slow shipping. A few weeks is nothing compared to me paying for the phone almost two years ago. From my point of view they can send it with the slowest possible transport - as long as it is safe that it is delivered.


I fully understand this. And this is normal. I am from the Netherlands. When I order something from the US, I have to pay VAT, that’s perfectly fine for me. But what me annoys is that the VAT is usually collected by the shipping company, which charges a way too high fee for arranging this in my opinion. Therefore, I really hope that I can pay the VAT directly to for example the German dispatcher, so that they can ship the Librem 5 to me without the need for the shipping company to charge the VAT, and the high fee. See also this.


Correct, that’s an administration fee charged by bPost for presenting the package to customs or something along those lines. Apparently DHL and Fedex charge €10 for the same service.


While Postnord isn’t the best, DHL is even worse in Sweden. They deliver packages Monday-Friday from 10am-5pm when everyone is working. They are supposed to call you a day before the delivery and ask you if you are able to pick it up at that time or if you want to postpone it to another day, but out of the 7 times I’ve used DHL they have only done it once because usually they don’t have enough time to make that call.

So how DHL works in Sweden:

  • They arrive a random date outside your house during work hours and try to deliver the package
  • No one is home, so they sent it to a pick-up location anyway
  • There are much fewer DHL pick-up points than Postnord pick-up points, so you have to pick you packet up at some shady minimart 20km away so you have to drive for 15min. One time the pick-up point for me was a minimart where 4 years ago they got caught by the police for selling drugs behind the counter…

How postnord works in Sweden:

  • Packet arrives in Sweden, if the packet is from outside the EU it takes an extra day for the customs and you have to pay a 70SEK/7EUR administration fee on top of the usual customs fee.
  • Packet arrives a day later after you have paid the fee at a close by pick-up point (usually your closest grocery store which is very convenient)

Except for deliveries to businesses I’ve never heard of anyone actually enjoying DHL in Sweden.


I was referring to Finland. But I have some experience with Sweden also and Postnord is the worst - especially Postnord företag (Business). The normal post works with normal Swedish bureucrazy but Posten Business is a disaster - also in Finland where they bought the worst distribution company available. But I can speak only of Arboga and I suppose there are local differences. We have a DHL freight center in Eskiltuna where I usually pick up my parcels and they have nice people there. DB Schenker is also fairly good in our area. How delivery from outside EU works in Sweden I cannot tell but I heard about the administration fee.

Summa summarum it seems to be a local thing whether delivery works well.

1 Like

PostNord isn’t that bad in Sweden. But if Purism won’t ship from the EU then some countries has to pay more money than others.


That should be a really bad joke! Only this ridiculous beginner specifications (Resolution, RAM, memory) then you sit 2 years on my money and now again 20% on top of it come ??? what are you smoking ??? please tell me how I can cancel my order and I get my money back soon!

that is a risky mess that is not clear and unmistakable from the beginning to communicate. I really do not want to have anything to do with such a company. this is a real scandal in my eyes and I believe that some pre-orderers will have a bad awakening with you. with about 6000 pre-orders to $ 600 makes approx. 3.6 million dollars. net! what are you doing with the money? sex, drugs, rock’n’roll? will happily cancel that order that you got $100 cheaper than new customers pay.
A scandal is something outrageous, not something that is the norm. Paying taxes for goods ordered abroad is the norm. It was also in the FAQ of the campaign page that you read. Be a man about it.


you’re right. it was stupid to bet on purism. They do not have a phone yet. They have no idea how to arrange the shipment, warranty and returns. it is early august and the third quarter ends in the states on 30.09. too. nobody will receive the phone until then.

Are you really mad at Purism because you don’t know how taxes work?


a selling price is always gross for consumers