State of Librem 5 in 2026

I’ve been lingering on this forum since 2019, with my main interest being the Librem 5. This idea of ‘one device to do all my computing needs’ - simple as they are - never really worked. A Mac and an iPhone tended to be what worked for me but into my 30s now I want to spend more time away from the desk. So I’m more keen on this ‘one device that can do most things’. Needs to be a phone right? Can’t go without that. I also don’t like owning too many devices - sold my MacBook Air, iPad Pro and plan was to trade in my iPhone Air for the new Duo. Money can be justified for it given those sacrifices and how much it will do for me at the core of my digital life. Problem solved, right?

Well problem is, I’m in the UK. There was a lot of noise last year when our government asked Apple to create a backdoor and ban encryption etc. They put up a good fight but ultimately dismissed their case giving in. By chance a YouTube video came up on my feed explaining new content scanning features ALREADY implemented. But nobody has more than a vague description of how it works, or how good it works (or not) nor any guarantee it’s just applied how it’s said to be. Apple software is closed source. We’ll never know, nor I think, would they even be allowed to publish it even if they wanted to. Of course, Google, Microsoft - all no better, maybe even worse for not putting up a fight in the first place.

I could just not use iCloud right? But because this unknown mandatory code is at the system level - you don’t need to use iCloud or store your data where it can be demanded. The phone itself and telemetry can be reporting back so long as it has an internet connection and we simply wouldn’t know.

Like 99% of people, I don’t have anything to hide. If they wanted to come out and take my stuff, that’d be fine but there’s a process there and the need for a cause and whatnot. And I could just forget all about this, buy that stunning looking iPhone Duo and continue to enjoy the magic of the Apple Ecosystem because left to work, it is sublime, albeit at a heavy cost.

As I sit with all my devices sold, paid off a lot of debt I had open, plan was to get the Duo on long 0% payment and that would be my sole ‘polishing the credit score’ activity…. I am thinking:

What if this is the time to try something different?

Android phones are out - they’re subject to the same pressure as Apple. Things like Murena eOS, the Jolla Phone, Graphene on a Pixel (although hesitant to have a device with none designed for software to handle serious everyday life) - these are my only other options. Another idea was a Punkt calculator phone (for hotspot and calls / texts) paired with a Linux tablet of some sort, though still not one device. Then there’s the ‘NexPhone’ but at the price, the performance is bound to be limited for a very highly promised flexible experience. And even then… for a phone… it’s Android.

I remembered the Librem 5. I remember that I asked on here and it had a Desktop Mode, not only that, but you can buy the setup too. There’s the NexDock which seems to still be developed.

But I remember even in 2019 it was hard to get one - long wait times. When people did, it was still a fairly older technology profile of a phone and putting full Linux level systems on it had serious implications to battery and the experience. I’m sure some things will still be behind, but all in all:

What is the current state of jumping into a Librem 5 now as an only device?

Look, it sounds crazy, but I had it pretty well thought out with the Duo idea. Mobile apps and experiences were fine because for heavy lifting, we have this family iMac M4 which isn’t going anywhere. I planned to use it if/when I was needing a full desktop setup. With the Librem I can plug it into a monitor, but if there was a way to take video IN to the IMac to use it as a screen that’d be more ideal - does that exist?

Apart from that I have some experience with Linux / Ubuntu. My entire need for a ‘seamless’ cloud is where previous Linux, phone and Microsoft attempts to move away from Apple fell apart. Nothing was as seamless. BUT, all being on the one device - that’s solved. No more need to sync, it all lives on the phone and I can back it up to a hard drive I presume.

Are any of you doing this, living this way with your digital lives? Is there a case for ‘forget about all that broader world stuff and just ignorantly keep consuming and participating in big tech?’

Last one, if I ordered today, what’s the shipping time on a Librem, still months to wait?

The lead time for shipping of every product major products sold by Purism is shown in a chart on their website. :wink:

Moderator added link: Product Stock Status and Delivery Lead Time – Purism

The Librem 5 is not my only device, nor do I use any cloud storage/syncing, etc., so I can’t comment on that.

It is a sacrifice. I do not know if a Librem 5 will suit your needs. Compared to what you are used to, it is slow and lags like hell. The hardware is old, but the software is slowly getting better over time, we hope for gdawn as someone likes to say… I use it atm as my daily driver, but I rarely use it. But I LOVE it.

I flew to the UK (for my work) with a librem 5 trying to being somewhat minimalist but I always had my librem 14 also. I’ve tried to be a Librem 5 enthusiast to the fullest extent I could manage but I am, at times, a hypocrite. I have hesitated to really discard old hardware, and then I end up with too many things and too few good things. (At this exact moment, I am writing to you from a viscerally corporate spyware device. However much bad you think it is, it is a worse device than that.)

I spent most of my time in the UK in London. So I don’t know how things were outside of that. Even after changing my modem to an E1 broadmobi by physically unscrewing the modem cover and changing it, it seems like getting signal on a Librem 5 can be rough compared to the experience I think the other people are getting on their other phones. After using the Librem 5 as daily driver phone from 2023 until 2026, during my 2026 london trip I bought a cheap garbage android from Argos. The android is not good, and even as a former android user I would not recommend using it. In a few rare instances it gets bettter signal with the same SIM cards as the Librem 5, but if I put it by the wrong side of my bed where the signal wouldn’t read then I would miss work calls just the same (ouch!).

When I say that I was daily driving a Librem 5, that’s not entirely true. I ordered multiple librem 5’s and this most recent time that I went to the UK, I had with me 2 other Librem 5 units to use as chargers and 5 total Librem 5 batteries. This way, the unused units were always at home charging batteries while I was on the go with the Librem 5 and two full spare batteries that I could swap to for additional energy. That also meant flying with 2 or 3 Librem 5 chargers. You can buy “generic battery chargers” for $10 online in the US that can also charge Librem 5 batteries and I also flew with a handful of those, but unlike Librem 5 chargers they dont come with UK wall adapters out of the box and due to my other personal stuff I ended up not wanting to use up adapters on them.

Even with a fleet of three total librem 5s, two always charging and one in my hand, I would have problems like the aging Librem 5 starting to fall apart and then I rotate to the other one and use it instead as my daily driver. Two of the three were Liberty Phones so I only ever used Liberty Phones as the daily driver, because I wanted the 4GB of ram. If you think about it, if you are in the AI apocalypse watching the world burn fighting for your freedom, what’s a few thousand bucks if there’s a chance the extra RAM would keep you fighting a little longer instead of giving up?

Surely you understand that today’s systems are extremely corporatocratic. Even coca-cola cans were invented by a team of engineers to make that hissing sound so other people around you will decide that they should buy one too. The ocean of social cues to make you act in line is very large. I like to think that it is possible all of the other people who aren’t using freedom technology have their thoughts and minds for sale, and so it seems plausible that if you start using only freedom technology and cut out the surveillance machines from your life, the thoughts and minds of the people around you will be sold off to switch into attack mode to change your behavior back. I lack specific evidence for this – I have only anecdotal evidence – so you could easily decide that what I’m saying is conspiratorial and totally be living with the common accepted public narrative. That’s fine if you choose to do that, but I’m just sharing. Someone on Purism forums once said that people treat you a lot nicer if you pretend that your phone is old and no longer properly supported, rather than if you tell them it was designed not to work how they think it should in the first place by admitting to using a Librem 5. But I’m a bad liar. Instead I tell people I’m using the Librem 5, eat it when they tell me to stop, and then… at some point I just started telling people:

I really like this phone because it doesn’t work.
You’d be surprised how pleasant your life would be if your phone didn’t work.

Of course what I am saying in those instances isn’t strictly, literally true. If you could open a portal through time and hand my 6-year-old self in the early 2000s a Librem 5 instead of a Gameboy and teach him how to use it, it would have been extraordinary. It would have been like magic. But the iPhone Duo users would say the same thing about their phone as well, so maybe that’s a low bar.

This guy is on-point. Whether it lags varies based on a ton of factors. It’s more likely that if you invest a large amount of time you can mitigate those factors, whereas maybe on an Android or iPhone if it lagged there would be nothing you could do about it.

The lag doesn’t really totally make sense. I work in the software industry and I will probably lose my job to AI: supposedly software is a solved problem now and the ever-flowing AI agents will grant us infinite software. Yet, for some reason, if I play a complex 60fps animated 2D video game that I hacked together in 2013 in a dorm room – and I run that game on my Librem 5 – it basically runs flawlessly and only marginally lags if I make thousands and thousands and thousands of little spaceships with unique hit points, sprites, combat abilities, and whatever else. But if I open a web page, and write you a message on these forums on there, there’s a risk it might lag really badly and I might get bored and stop using it before I finish writing a post. (Obviously the modern web is a consequence of society and not of flawless engineering.)

Some might say I’m rambling a bit in text form but I’m hoping that by sharing I can offer you one random guy’s real perspective. The reason I bought the Android at the Argos wasn’t actually that anything was physically wrong with the Librem 5, but that I missed a meeting because Microsoft wouldn’t let me join a teams call and I felt guilty about it. Later I found out that if I had been practicing and ensuring things were configured correctly more often, there is a way to log into teams on the browser and get in the call on the Librem 5 and I even did a call with someone from work where it worked and we could talk that way. So it’s user error as the reason to buy an Android, not something strictly wrong, but I haven’t managed to discard the thing because it’s rather addictively fast response if I start web browsing on the Android, and also the SMS delivery folks always deliver to the Android where as things occasionally go into the void and don’t receive on the Librem 5. This is probably happening because some other folks at Google or wherever probably stalked people like us, found that we were using Librem 5s, and then invented some new technology called RCS that they new Librem 5s wouldn’t use so that they would know we have to buy a new device. Maybe if that bothers you, you could ask an AI to make RCS work on your Librem 5??? Also, if I use the Librem 5 as a hotspot they allow me access to the full internet, but when I used the Argos Android as a hotspot some protocols and systems couldn’t reach the outside world, so I think having a good/real device like a Librem 5 is much preferred in my life. Sometimes you really want the internet, and want to use your phone as a hotspot, with nobody barring your way. It seemed for me that Librem 5 continued to be a more reliable way to do that, whereas I’m not really sure what’s going on with Android now.

What none of that says – focusing on what you lose like that – is to speak of what you gain. The idea of convergence was a fun gimmick for me for the first year. Then I bought a Librem 14 that I wasn’t sure I would use, because I wanted to throw money at Purism and support them for making the Librem 5. This is where the cracks in the convergence theory start to show. Because the Librem 5 and Librem 14 systems are legitimately nearly the same software ecosystem, any time that I could bring a Nexdock and plug a Librem 5 into it instead I could just as well bring a Librem 14 – using the same amount of backpack space – and have a user experience that is not worse in any way (if the L5 hotspot is on) but which is better in several subtle ways. That’s how I became a Librem 14 user and it reinstated the phone/laptop divide in my life as one of hardware physical scale – I/O into the world – instead of how corporatocracy wants us all to believe that it was ever reasonable for there to be a software divide there. (“You need a phone for this app” or “You need a PC to run that program.”)

This blows a hole in modern computer security. It’s like the guy wearing the glasses in They Live. Modern computer security professionals teach us that 2FA is the solution to security. Because your phone and computer are two different things, you can use your phone to unlock your computer.

But what if your computer is allowed to ssh login to your phone and remotely run programs? The whole concept of 2FA is a joke. All your factors have proper credentialed access to act on your behalf, or they do not. If they do, then you probably want them to be able to log in to your other factors, and if that is the case then compromising one means compromising them all. Or you could be more paranoid like me and avoid SSH server on the Librems and use them both as I/O devices into the world, but then logically they both should be able to unlock something that requires 2FA login access – to be the second factor.

I ended up mostly using command line on the Librem 5. I carried it as a quick ssh terminal into my files and the world. The primary encrypted hard drive stores my photos, and the dual boot SD card is 1TB in size and has Waydroid to pretend to be android so if I’m caught in a pinch and need to pretend to have an Android for an Airport security or something, given 20 minutes to boot Waydroid I can make the Librem 5 pretend to literally be an Android without allowing the Android ecosystem access to the encrypted primary hard drive. Since it’s already a flagrant violation of anything I would use if I were ruler of the world, the Waydroid container on the dual boot literally has Google Play and the ability to get those official apps that way, and that SD card is not encrypted so it’s all just junk and I have to remember it’s a big security nothing burger of data leaking.

But, where possible, I much prefer to use SSH tunneling from the Librem 5 back to the US where I remotely pilot an Android that isn’t on-device when I need to do Android 2FA for my job. My Android in the US is on a cloud server in a VM and is always running, so it doesn’t take 20 minutes to boot like the on-device Waydroid, which makes it moreso actually usable. Especially if I break down and just connect to it from a Librem 14, where the remote UI works a bit better (the one I use was not properly adapted to mobile).

The end result is a phone I can trust. I can take my clothes off, turn on the Camera/Mic physical switch, point it at myself and take a naked picture and then go share it with my doctor and have extremely high confidence that I won’t get an advert next week about the contents of that picture – because it wasn’t sent to the cloud.

I have paper maps in my car, although they say that on my 1TB SD card if I wanted to I could download the maps of the entire globe and then have my Librem 5 give me navigational directions entirely on device, and I just never bothered to set it up.

And remember, the only situation where a Librem 5 legitimately fails and burns the users badly is when you take the uSD or SIM card in and out of the device while it’s powered on. I rotate SIMs a lot between US and UK sim, because my US sim that was supposed to be international has shoddy service in the UK for some reason unless I put it in an Android (and the UK sim doesn’t). And every time I rotate the sims, I have always removed the battery from the device first. Because they say there’s an issue with Librem 5 that shorts and kills your SIM otherwise.

Another note: I ordered a Lapdock from Purism but it was a few years before they got inventory and shipped it to me. I ordered allegedly the same product from Nexdock website and it shipped in two weeks. However, the Purism one has no wifi/bluetooth and the Nexdock one doesn’t let you turn off wifi/bluetooth, so I actually feel much better about the one from Purism now that I have it. But having a laptop shell like that eventually led to me buying a linux mini PC, even though Purism’s Librem Mini always seems to be out of stock. And the mini PC has been really seductive for me since it’s using a less free operating system, and has all the creepy stuff like Intel ME running and watching me, unlike the Librem 14, and so as a result the mini PC tends to run faster and have better specs. It’s important to know your computing needs if you want to be minimalist instead of just buying the best you can manage and then keeping it for a long time to cover as wide a net of needs as possible.

Good luck!

I’m not a Librem 5 owner (nor am I particularly a fan of how the company is run), so you can dismiss my comments if you want, but I feel compelled to correct some of your information and also maybe offer some realistic expectations.

Well problem is, I’m in the UK. There was a lot of noise last year when our government asked Apple to create a backdoor and ban encryption etc. They put up a good fight but ultimately dismissed their case giving in. By chance a YouTube video came up on my feed explaining new content scanning features ALREADY implemented. But nobody has more than a vague description of how it works, or how good it works (or not) nor any guarantee it’s just applied how it’s said to be. Apple software is closed source. We’ll never know, nor I think, would they even be allowed to publish it even if they wanted to. Of course, Google, Microsoft - all no better, maybe even worse for not putting up a fight in the first place.

So, as far I can tell, this is factually incorrect.

Yes, Apple has been ordered (in secret even) to give the UK government a backdoor to their services. Rather than comply, they’ve simply stopped offering the Advanced Data Protection feature (which encrypts all data on iCloud and can’t be broken by Apple or governments (unless a state actor figures out how to crack the encryption) to new users in the UK. Which means that if the UK wants to use the courts to gain access to your iCloud data, they can. (This is where I do need to note that most users don’t even turn on ADP because if you lose access to your device and your encryption key, Apple cannot help get you access again. It is very good for privacy but very bad for everything else. It is not turned on by default for a reason, but losing it is still a huge loss for UK customers just the same.).

Apple is still fighting the orders, trying to make it public, and yes, refusing to comply by simply not offering this feature to UK users. That said, the content scanning features are NOT accurate. Apple and Google missed a deadline to implement and impossible feature request, but the UK law hasn’t gone into effect and Apple hasn’t implemented a way to scan content the way the UK wants. They do allow content on a device operated by a child to blur or obscure nudity, but that’s not the same as what the UK is asking Apple to do here. If Apple were to comply (and I certainly hope they don’t; it would be worthwhile to call the bluff of the government and just say you’ll stop offering iCloud services in the region before taking this sort of thing on), that’s in the future.

That doesn’t meant your fears are misguided at all, but it does mean that the timetable hasn’t happened yet. I’ll also note that although enforcement for smaller companies is going to be impossible, any legislation requiring this sort of constant surveillance will apply to all smartphones sold in the UK. So if your government does make age verification and content scanning the law, that’s going to apply to presumably all computers and smartphones sold in the UK.

I’m not encouraging you to get an iPhone Duo if you live in the UK and are worried about your government’s lack of civil liberties, but you’re getting slightly ahead of yourself.

As for trying something new, if your baseline is the Apple ecosystem and you have an iPhone Air, the Librem 5 experience is going to be terrible to use, convergence or not. It’s running on decade old hardware (that was already antiquated when it came out), it lacks all the niceties you’ve grown accustomed to (efficient web browsing, reliable text messages and telephony, a camera that isn’t abysmal, battery life) and the convergence piece is still going to take a lot of work. (And there are ways you can use a USB-C display port type of device with an iMac but it will require a capture card like the Elgato HD60S and I have no idea how well that will work with a Librem 5. It would be better to just get an extra monitor).

For an all-in-one device that does what you wanted the Duo to be, I don’t think an open alternative exists. I think if you’re privacy focused, your best bets are either a Linux tablet as you mentioned, paired with a dumb phone, or something like Graphene OS and possibly a Linux tablet too.

Buying a Librem 5 and expecting it to work primarily as your main smartphone the way Apple users have been accustomed to using smartphones, is going to be setting yourself up for failure. That isn’t to say with enough patience you couldn’t get some things working, but the entire experiment as @Dlonk explained is one of compromise.

What you need to decide is if not having access to to an encrypted cloud is an acceptable trade-off for you. The age verification and content scanning pieces are separate and if your government passes that sort of thing, I don’t know what to tell you, except to tell your MPs that using child safety as a kludge to surveil citizens is not OK.

I’m all for getting out of the Apple or Google ecosystems, but doing so is going to require a lot of work on your part and a Librem 5 is almost certainly not going to provide you with an experience that is worthwhile. If you’re committed to this approach, I really think multiple devices and maintaining your own NextCloud instance is probably what you need to do.

To be fair, there is simply no way to know what Apple software is actually doing, a point made in the OP.

You may be right that it’s not as bad as it could be but none of us has any factual basis to go on and likely we never will.

So I would work to the assumption that the worst is either true today or will be true tomorrow - and choose my technology accordingly.

If intending to buy the NexDock from Purism, I would check with them first. The store says that it is “in stock” but I am not sure that it is.

You don’t need to get the NexDock. I bought a Uperfect instead (directly from supplier), because the particular Uperfect model suited my needs better. It works well enough although there are or were some glitches, hopefully some of which will be or have been improved with software changes e.g. crash on unplug.

However for me “one device that can do most things” was never the most important goal. It was a “nice to have”. I am yet to go away taking only Librem 5 + lapdock (although there are a lot of other factors that have played into that e.g. COVID).

I wouldn’t feel too badly about that. Each country has its own tech-badnesses - and those bad ideas tend to spread from one western democracy to another anyway. You will get my cr⁑p and I will get your cr⁑p. :frowning:

I think your starting point would be confirming that a network in the UK that has appropriate coverage for you is compatible with the Librem 5 and in particular with VoLTE enabled (because in many countries, with the phaseout of the 3G network, VoLTE is required).

@Dlonk Dropping calls and messages does seem like a bit of a barrier. Support did get back to me to confirm 10 day lead time which isn’t so bad on the Librem 5. The only time I’ve heard of them since my debut on here was people complaining / giving up on the pre-order situation but I can see both sides tbf. I enjoyed reading about all of the use cases / ways you’ve used your multiple L5’s. Though it still sounds like its a bit of a struggle. It makes me think my demands of using it as a sole device might easily exceed its capability :-/

@lolno I’m really interested in your reply as that’s the main issue behind deviating from Apple. I know ADP is off sadly, and I never had it enabled before because I never felt like it would be needed. But back then I also didn’t know what a TCN was or these sorts of gag orders. I definitely think Apple will win on that one, after all, they won against the US in terms of not making a back door for them. Though in China, they basically handed over iCloud data of users to a China CCP controlled entity. I fear they’ll potentially do something like that at worst in the UK if they have to. Because pulling out services etc, just seems so unlikely for here. They’ve just built that crazy cool Battersea HQ here in the UK so they’re very much invested. I am happy the whole ADP dropping was a means of bringing attention to it, and more affronted at Google et. al. who bent over forwards, complied and said no more of it, at least in terms of access as desired by the government.

Aren’t the content scanning things already implemented? Would we not have heard massive headlines by now about them and Google failing to implement it by the September deadline that Kier dickface announced in June? I mean, if they both did comply, potentially bound to say nothing, they could have slipped it into iOS 27 and not be allowed to disclose it. I think that blurring thing is definitely wise, glad that’s there and I believe notifies parents too so they can actually take action and prevent horrible stuff as is their responsibility. Do you think they would remove iCloud? As a pretty die hard Apple sheep for the longest time, I have to admit, a Mac, iPad, iPhone etc - without iCloud doesn’t really have the same magic. In such a case you’d need a tonne of alternative services, cost, and perhaps a PC or something else would have much more appeal. If it was taken from the UK , I presume iOS and macOS will continue to be designed in such a way (as Apple does) to make life full of friction without the whole integration / continuity. I’d love it if they did make the statement.

Sadly small companies don’t seem to be thought about much at all. So many websites around the world now block us on IP (and Europe too) because of laws like GDPR, some adult websites even outright block the UK now as they either can’t or won’t adopt the whole verification stuff brought in under the same laws. I think they’d rather we are all forced to have little choice, choice being the big guys who are legally required to comply, have the resources to comply, have too much stake in the game to refuse I guess? They’ve even tried to come after Linux and they’re even mentioning that they’re looking into the banning of VPNs!!! I know there are some obvious impracticalities to actually successfully doing such a thing, just like they can’t ban piracy online - but that’s still no good to average Joe who happens to be the statistical 0.01% person who gets hammered for it and made an example of. Same if you continue to use a VPN under such a law, do nothing wrong with it, other than the fact you were told not to. I know, I am getting ahead of myself again. But I can’t believe this’s even in discussion right now.

Aside from that stuff, for sure, it seems like the Librem 5 still has rough edges. I was just looking into other phones like the German Volla phone which seemed fairly polished, but still a lot of headache with that in some silly ways too. It seems this is the reality of mobile Linux, only other option being phones with severely modified Android such as Murena eOS and that Jolla phone’s custom OS.

I spent some time looking into the whole dumb phone / feature phone with hotspot but many of them were 2021 / 2022 Nokia / HMD’s with ‘Kai OS’ which also appears to be abandoned as of lately? 4G at best, no serious 5G contenders yet. The Punkt MP02 also seems out of stock everywhere and they seem more interested in actual touch screen phones with AOSP derived custom Android systems.

It really is hard work. The sad thing is, it literally would take multiple devices, a lot more thinking outside the box and expecting things to go wrong and that alone goes a bit against the whole idea of this phone first, sole device, digital minimalism (but where digital life is concerned, a LOT of heavy expectations for said device).

I have a lot to think about but a lot of the solutions involving good open source hardware or software is far behind where I think I hoped it was. And of course, we’ve already said about the horrific things ahead for Big Tech.

I might email my MP but I suspect they won’t care because they don’t ever mention it to benefit their popularity etc.

fwiw I’ve had worse issues with messages than calls in this regard. Several people have mentioned audio not working during calls but honestly I think a lot of the issue is user error forgetting to enable the hardware mic switch. The hardware switch is true to purpose and so nothing in the phone can turn it on for you when you answer a call (such as if you forget to turn it on).

I’m not sure I agree with you. When I was about 12 years old, my father look across at my sibling(s) and I at the dinner table and he said, “I know you guys look at p***. We just figure, you know, kids your age do that kind of thing.”

Next time I had a moment while everyone else was out of the house and they left me briefly to be alone, I went to the computer and I went to the Google Search and I searched up whatever it was my dad was talking about. It was immensely educational, I saw photos of many naked human beings who showed extremely subtle and tragic signs of suffering on their faces, just in the top hits on Google Image Search for the 4 letter word. The combination of seeing other people who had lived much worse lives than mine which got them into those situations – where it was written all over their faces and bodies – coupled with my own body’s immediately physical response of pleasure to the situation told me all sorts of things about the world. There are very seriously other human beings who have completely lost the idea of love and trust, and they’re hurting really badly and would do anything for a perceived short term gain, even violate their own physical and mental well-being by exposing themselves online.

That’s extremely educational. Why do you need to hide that from kids? What we need to hide from kids is AI. It’s the nonhumans, actually, that are the evil ones in this society. How about whenever something shows on a kid’s screen that come from a data mining/machine learning/AI based recommendation we blur that recommendation so that kids experience freedom in their youth. How about that? If we need to hide the truth from the children so that they can become responsible, let’s hide the systems expressly designed to destroy their mind and agency and individuality instead of hiding the physical information about the bodies of other humans.

But we can’t even have a discussion about that because that is the modern keys to the kingdom of the ones who are deciding which discussions we have. Governments aren’t going to do that, full stop.

As of 2 minutes ago, The "Store but SHOP via accessories " shows LAPdock, not NEXDock.
The “SHOP” however doesn’t show either.

~s

A lot depends on how you use a phone. If you use your phone to shoot video, don’t buy the L5. You can take short, low-resolution videos, but it takes about 10 times longer to process and encode the video than the length of the video. The L5 takes 3 or 4 seconds to process a photo, so you can’t take a bunch of action photos. Low light photos on the L5 are very poor quality. It is fun to play around with the settings in the camera, so you learn a lot about how cameras work when you use the L5. Most of my photos turn out OK on the L5 when there is good light, but if you need consistent, good quality photos, the L5 is not the phone for you.

Also, the L5’s battery life is poor. If I turn on suspend, then I can make it though a normal day without charging, However, if you are the type of person who spends a lot of time on your phone, the L5 probably won’t make it through a whole day, and you will need to carry around a portable power bank to recharge it. Also, the L5 only charges at a max of 5Vx1.6A, so it takes longer to charge the L5 than other phones.

The L5 can get hot if you use the phone for very long, The i.MX 8M Quad processor is joined to the back of the LCD with thermal paste, so I can feel the heat in my hand when I touch the screen, or I hold the aluminum frame of the phone. If I play a YouTube video for 20 minutes while using cellular data, the phone gets hot. Also, the L5 is about 30% heavier, and twice as thick as a normal Android phone, plus its screen is smaller. It feels nicer to hold than a normal phone, because it is so thick. Apps also take longer to load and there is a noticeable lag in the interface compared to a normal Android phone. None of these things stop me from using the L5, but you probably will notice them.

There isn’t a case available for the L5, so not a good phone if you need a phone that can be dropped and abused. I put the L5 in a fake leather sleeve, which is less convenient than having a case.

You can install Waydroid and microG to run Android apps, but some banking apps will still not run because they fail SafetyNet and Play Integrity verification checks or because they think the phone has been rooted. Another thing to keep in mind is that stable Waydroid is based on AOSP 13, which is no longer getting security updates, and the latest Waydroid release based on AOSP 16 still has a lot of bugs.

If you plan to use the phone as a desktop PC, it works that way, but its i.MX 8M Quad processor is between a Raspberry Pi 3 and a Raspberry Pi 4 in terms of CPU performance, so it works for web browsing, watching video and editing documents, but don’t expect it to have the performance of a normal PC. The L5 only has 3GB of RAM, so you will have to remember to close programs to save on memory and not open too many tabs on your web browser. You only have 32GB of eMMC storage, so once you run out of that space, you will be using the microSD card over a slow USB 2.0 connection, so it will take you longer to open and save files than on a normal PC.

In my youth I worked for a year in a company that designed circuit boards, so I really appreciate the engineering work that went into the L5. The Librem 5 contains 74 integrated circuits (IC’s) and its 4 circuit boards have a total of 1267 components, making it the most complex phone ever created. The six chips (i.MX 8M Quad, RS9116, BM818, Teseo-LIV3F, WM8962 and bq25895) that the Librem 5 uses in place of an integrated mobile SoC occupy a total of 1483.2 mm2, which is roughly 10 times the area of a Snapdragon 8. Purism had to use components as small as 0201 and use 10 layers to cram everything into the Librem 5’s main circuit board, which had to go through roughly a dozen iterations to get right.

In short, the L5 works and Purism provides good support for the phone, but don’t expect performance like a normal phone.

If you want a Linux phone with a strong processor, the Jolla Phone (2026) is the best option today, but I doubt it will ever get an Android kernel upgrade from MediaTek, so that probably limits its lifespan to 4 years. I can’t recommend the FuriLabs FLXs+ or the Jolla C2, because they are stuck with unsupported Android 5.4 kernels that are no longer getting security updates. Until the next generation of Linux phones arrives based on the RK3588S (Liberux NEXX, Device D. and probably Purism’s next gen phone), there won’t be a pure Linux phone on the market with good performance.

You can record videos indefinitely with real time processing using video recorder. The files are pretty big though.

Processing takes less than half a second and happens in parallel; what you refer to is the time needed to switch between resolutions and restart the capturing pipeline. You could stay at high resolution and easily take several photos per second.

JPGs are, but the photos themselves are not that bad and you can often get decent results by developing the raws yourself and applying some proper denoising. This photo was taken in the middle of the night with just a very dimmed incandescent bulb shining in the room (which you can see reflected in eyes) and then developed in Darktable, as an example.

4.2Vx1.5A, which results in charging from 0 to 100 in about 4 hours. It’s a bit too high for my taste in fact, personally I have set it to be slower on my phone to let the battery stay healthy longer as most of the time it just charges overnight anyway.

Please do not compare the L5 with any phones. Keep the Librem 5 unique.

So this a critical piece missing for L5. Full shame for purism for not make one specially for Librem 5 Liberty as more expensive. I suggest to Purism to make a black-silicon-case like Nokia N9

Sailfish is obsolete and hardcoded, it ship 30K bugs.

Yes there are like Android Sony Xperia devices.

Oh, that is fantastic! How did I miss that? I’ll have to compile it and try it out tonight. Are there any plans to package it and add it to Crimson?

Sebastian, when you have time, can you please post the commands that you used to take and process that low-light photo? I would like to stick them in a script.

@sb-purism, In my review, I should have mentioned that this ability to see the software progressing and try out stuff like this is the reason why I enjoy using the L5. I have an AOSP phone (a Pixel 8 Pro with /e/OS 4.2), but I don’t get much enjoyment out of it compared to the L5.

I took it in Millipixels, copied the DNG file to my laptop and opened it in Darktable.

Glowup (which uses darktable-cli under the hood) may give you some improvement when in low light already, but it currently has all its settings hardcoded while it could adjust denoising strength based on photo’s gain/exposure, so in such extreme cases you’ll likely want to play with sliders yourself anyway.

Do you have a link to where you read about this?

It gives me pause. Few years ago my YouTube recommendations got infected with always sending me stuff about TempleOS. The guy had his share of horrible problems as a human, but he would sometimes say things so bizarre that they stuck with me. Among them was the adage:

An idiot admires complexity, a smart person admires simplicity.

… or something like that. For me one of the reasons I like the L5 is the feeling that I own it. I can open it with a screwdriver, mess around with some stuff, etc. But isn’t that made worse by complex components? I think very often of the NXP i.MX 8M Quad and the BM818 and the third chip for WiFi (I forget which one that is). What are the others for?

@Dlonk, In a previous life, I went through the schematics and counted all the components on the Librem 5’s circuit boards and posted the info on the community wiki. See:

I was really bored during the COVID-19 pandemic. :wink:

A modern smartphone is insanely complex. You can either hide all that complexity inside an integrated mobile SoC, like a Snapdragon or Dimensity, or break out that complexity in separate components on a circuit board, which can be isolated with kill switches. There is no way you are getting to simplicity if you want the functionality of a modern smartphone.

Purism made the circuit board more complex by adding kills switches and a smartcard reader, but it doesn’t have a fingerprint reader, NFC and wireless charging like many phones today.
New stuff keeps getting added like neural processors, encryption engines and secure enclaves with a separate microprocessor and separate SRAM. Xiaomi reported that is Xring O3 processor had 24 billion transistors. I’m guessing that a Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 has over 20 billion transistors, and even a low end Snapdragon 4 Gen 5 has 10 billion. I often wonder how many operating systems are running inside a smartphone, because many components have their own operating system.