Status 2020 Shipping from Germany

aye and that is because the L5 is “made-in-the-US-of-A” … although Purism employs people remotely from all over the world … has to do with investors i believe …

If I understand that right, the following hints at that using DHL as carrier may allow for the recipient to avoid having to pay that extra interest percentage, by the recipient prearranging for the customs payment.

Shouldn’t matter if it’s not directly a “Chinahandy” or the recipient lives in another country.

as i see it the customs fee is a means to disuade “you” and “me” from buying in non-bulk quantities from not-inside-the-border entities …

The link seems to inform about some extra up to 2,5% charged, besides the customs fees, by some express carriers, and with others not, if an express payment was prearranged, or if standard shipping was used.

Hi @Richard / purism,

what’s the current status of the German/European distribution centre. :slight_smile:


Great question…

Dave Chappelle Runs Away GIF

Haha no updates as of yet but remember that VAT wasn’t charged at the time of sale. So regardless, VAT will need to be paid whether your Librem 5 is shipped from our warehouse in California or from one in Europe.


Thanks for the answer :slight_smile: Who could know?

Our executive team who let me know there are no updates currently. If one were to be in place by August when Evergreen is slated to begin shipping, that just means having to pay Purism for the VAT rather than the courier.



Totally off topic, but:

You DO know your avatar, trimmed to a circle, makes you look like a Centauri from Babylon 5, don’t you?


If happens that delivery of L5 v1 (Evergreen) comes from non-EU country (indirectly, without exceptions) to us within EU and if happens that DHL is in charge of it, I already posted how much this currently costs in Germany:

Further awareness, if Fairphone 3 is delivered to my door in Germany I’ll pay: “Our services have a tax at the Dutch rate of 21 VAT%, because we are a Dutch company”, even if I might think I’m paying for it 19% of VAT. Mundita Pure, if pre-ordered, will be distributed from Poland (23% VAT), from another EU member country, so there will be, at least, no headache(s), for us within EU, with customs+VAT issues.

Therefore, liking to make this approaches rethinking short, we are just saying Thank You @Richard for today’s update (and hope)!

Thanks Quarneo, your upload seems to confirm the other information.

So, to summarize the findings for @Richard:

Only VAT and customs charges are the same for all carriers.

And only DHL standard shipping (not express shipping) seems to give the recipient the choice to either

  • claim the package at the customs office (providing documents and payments to the office), or
  • request an expensive “customs handling service” (providing the same documents, customs payments, and additional charges to the carrier, instead of directly to the customs office)

Others, including DHL express, UPS and more, seem to always do that customs service thing and charge varying rates, by default. At least if the recipient doesn’t happen to have some special arrangements in place.

We know that PPhone DHL Shipping costs $30,00 for delivery to EU if arranged/payed in advance. Therefore my info/upload shows that if nothing arranged (from Purism Carlsbad, CA, USA side) with DHL – in advance – German customers will pay at least $40,00 besides the fact that Purism already payed for delivery through … and this makes no sense to me … and related mainly to batch Dogwood (not being scheduled for delivery anyway). IMO, everything (related to VAT, certification, etc.) and in detail already discussed on this forum long time ago (if any lessons learned from L5 Chestnut shipment). And by the way (not having been clear and focused again … partial tooth of time dementia, partial language barrier), it was this info that made me happy yesterday:

If I were in USA and sending something to my customer within EU I might take a look at these options:

DHL Maximum Package Value 400 USD:

DHL Maximum Package Value 1000 USD:

DHL Parcel International Direct:

NOTE: This is primarily related to batch Dogwood (developer edition) delivery, rest is for me obsolete to talk about, who (sender rather than recipient) is prearranging what.

No, those DHL offerings seem to include that customs handling by the carrier/courier service (DDU/DDP), which always has to be payed extra to the carrier/courier. So not that good.
Note that a service fee of 2,5% by some carriers would be much more for the L5 than the PinePhone.

So, it may simply be sending with the regular (US) standard postal service, what allows the recipient to pay only the VAT+import tax for the package, directly at the customs office (zoll), without having to pay extra carrier/courier service.
(But the (recipient’s) postal service may still allow to request and pay their service, as in the posted notice, if really needed.)

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So, to summarize the findings for @Richard:

Looks like sending with standard US postal service could also lead to the least costly foreign local delivery, by the local postal service to the nearest customs office for pick-up by the receiver.

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Yes, I agree with you (but don’t think I’m an expert). There will be an official letter from DHL informing customer within EU about particular delivery, but just several days open until someone decides how to proceed (pickup or delivery to living address) as nearby customs office (Zoll) will not keep package forever, on spot.

imo, depending on how much currency one person earns on a per hour basis, under a standard working week, it could actually be cheaper to pay DHL or whoever handles the shipping to ALSO handle the customs fees and what-not …

a few years back when people didn’t order so much from outside the border it was actually possible for me to be done with it in just a few hours … now i’m afraid i’d have to spend a whole working day just to sort this out …

or perhaps it will be possible to do it faster considering the lockdown :mask:

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Did anyone here an update on this? This was promised in the campaign and since then I did not find any update on when this is expected to be done. I guess there is some time now to tackle this until October?

I did not get my Evergreen from Germany, but directly from the US (live in Sweden). I’d be surprised if that changes for future batches. So I had to pay import taxes.

This is the most recent comment I found.